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Old 07-26-2012, 07:53 AM
 
3,751 posts, read 10,222,320 times
Reputation: 6560

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All it tells me is that you are in a jacked-up situation.



I am really so sorry for you. Clearly there are a couple of main persons at fault - your lawyer for not really protecting you, as they had a duty to do. And the trustee who seems to have KNOWINGLY sold you 1.2 acres (bordered by roads) when they represented to you 3 acres, bordered by no roads.

Surely in Philly, or Pittsburgh there is a lawyer who will take this on.

So glad we didn't run into this with our build/purchase 4 years ago, but I tell you what - I will make certain in the future that I check out all these things. Never dreamed something could be so screwed up on so many multiple levels.
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Old 07-26-2012, 08:55 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,168 posts, read 39,280,307 times
Reputation: 40670
[quote=~Pajama mama~;25344681]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post



This is correct. I didn't quote the post about how the deed is worded but it starts off with "Beginning at the pin in the east line" etc. Does that tell you anything? There has been no change to that in 21 yrs.

I can almost guarantee you that any government doing a land purchase/easement creation/condemnation suit is going to have a lot line survey done. My Town has been involved in several of these (voluntary purchases/donations of wetlands) the last couple years and the property has been surveyed and the deeds all have the metes and bounds (From a pin located at____ thence 150 Ft., etc.) listed. Now it is MD not PA but when I check the tax sales/foreclosures up there the ads all have the metes and bounds description.

You may have answered this but was the transfer to the governmental authority recorded at the Courthouse?
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:14 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,424,095 times
Reputation: 564
[quote=North Beach Person;25345487]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Pajama mama~ View Post


I can almost guarantee you that any government doing a land purchase/easement creation/condemnation suit is going to have a lot line survey done. My Town has been involved in several of these (voluntary purchases/donations of wetlands) the last couple years and the property has been surveyed and the deeds all have the metes and bounds (From a pin located at____ thence 150 Ft., etc.) listed. Now it is MD not PA but when I check the tax sales/foreclosures up there the ads all have the metes and bounds description.

You may have answered this but was the transfer to the governmental authority recorded at the Courthouse?
We haven't been able to find anything other than the condemnation filed in July of last yr. Is that considered the transfer? The people (township/their attny) who could answer these questions are very secretive for fear I'm trying to derail this big project. How can I go about finding this on my own?
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:18 AM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,163,054 times
Reputation: 5398
[quote=~Pajama mama~;25344681]
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post

Are you saying this is my fault?

Absolutely not. I am suggesting this level of screwup is beyond the capability of you or any buyer. Takes a professional to blow one this bad.

It also sounds like the town sub-divided your property without doing the needed tasks. I really don't believe there is any way to remove property from a parcel without new deeds and parcel identification.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:22 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,168 posts, read 39,280,307 times
Reputation: 40670
Quote:
Originally Posted by ~Pajama mama~ View Post

We haven't been able to find anything other than the condemnation filed in July of last yr. Is that considered the transfer? The people (township/their attny) who could answer these questions are very secretive for fear I'm trying to derail this big project. How can I go about finding this on my own?
You could go to the Courthouse and research the deed files in the Recorder's office.

I just found this website and don't know if it works:

Pennsylvania Land Records and Deeds Search Directory - Page 1
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,424,095 times
Reputation: 564
Oh my goodness at the screwups. I just got off the phone with the tax accessors office. First to note..this is where the realtor went to get her listing information. So obviously they still had the property at 3 acres. Guess what? Clerk can see the condemnation filed but it got missed so it wasn't changed. Can anymore involved screw up? Are they liable? Let me guess..they are going to say it shouod have been caught by our closing attorney. I thought I couldn't be anymore surprised by the incompetence of people..I was wrong.

I talked to another realtor trying to figure out the impact the new property situation..and she said that our closing attorney typed up the new deed to us..so she missed the condemnation all together or it would be changed in the deed. Our evidence against her is staggering..

Been making phone calls regarding the trustee having knowledge of this and not disclosing. Concensus is..he should have by law disclosed. He committed fraud. So we have his name on documents/check from township. His hands were all over the deal and we can prove it.

So..it seems we will be suing 2 attorneys involved. Will it be easy..hell no. Will I be offering up my first born to pay for it..yes. j/k I think we have found an attorney..I emailed him some info he requested. Haven't heard back yet. He feels confident we have an excellent case. He wants to talk to his partners about suing 2 other lawyers to make sure they are in agreement with him. Crossing my fingers he takes our case.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,424,095 times
Reputation: 564
[quote=lvoc;25345806][quote=~Pajama mama~;25344681]

Absolutely not. I am suggesting this level of screwup is beyond the capability of you or any buyer. Takes a professional to blow one this bad.

[quote]

Oh no..that was not directed at you. You have been more than helpful. It was directed to Pacificflights last post.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:58 AM
 
14,415 posts, read 16,333,385 times
Reputation: 12894
You go girl!

I am very impressed with your thoroughness and your toughness of tackling this major issue.

Fingers crossed that this attorney will take on your case. If the partners are against it, ask them if they have another attorney that they could suggest(I am sure you already have been doing this anyway.)

Thank goodness you have the money to spend on getting an attorney. In the end you will get it all back. It's just an upfront expense. You will win this case but most likely it will settle and not go to court. But they will pay attorney costs as part of settlement as well. Wonder if you can get additional damages for all your troubles and time above the $40k.

You are a very intelligent person, and you will do just fine with all of this. It will be a hassle but you will come out ok in the end. The ride might not be fun, but it will be over in due time.

Much support to you.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,751 posts, read 31,608,375 times
Reputation: 12124
[quote=~Pajama mama~;25346184][quote=lvoc;25345806][quote=~Pajama mama~;25344681]

Absolutely not. I am suggesting this level of screwup is beyond the capability of you or any buyer. Takes a professional to blow one this bad.

Quote:

Oh no..that was not directed at you. You have been more than helpful. It was directed to Pacificflights last post.
I think Pacific Flights was being sarcastic. I think he/she was saying it wasn't your fault and you hired two fiduciaries to protect you. You should have been able to count on them.
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Old 07-26-2012, 11:50 AM
 
3,751 posts, read 10,222,320 times
Reputation: 6560
Yeah - that's what I got too.. that a lot of times in the real estate forums people do blame the buyer (yes - you are in an HOA, they can tell you what not to do, didn't you read??) ..

but in this case, the screwup (I am having a really hard time describing this situation without using expletives) is so ridiculously screwed up that there's just no realistic way you could have seen this coming.

Glad you've found a lawyer. It does sound like a pretty obvious case in my mind, but I'm not a lawyer. However, the very fact that everyone in town knows about it is going to make it hard for them to try to hide the mistakes. And small town people may try to protect one another, but they're not always the most sophisticated or savvy ... if your lawyer is decent they should be able to get enough evidence.

Just keep your records, photocopy anything you can (records/deeds/letters/e-mails) .. so if the "originals" start to disappear you have something.

Hope your attorney will give you a realistic outcome of what you might be able to get. I would ask for, Sale to be reversed (all monies returned to you). Rental expenses for 3 months (while looking for another acceptable property to buy), Moving expenses out of 1.2 acre property into rental place, moving expenses from rental place into next purchase, and of course attorney fees.

That is not greedy, and I would think in being reasonable they would be more likely to settle.

Of course, you could go for the jugular and try to bury them all. I wouldn't blame you.

Let us know how this proceeds. Yay potential lawyer!!!
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