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Old 07-21-2012, 03:52 PM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,156,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sware2cod View Post
Sounds like the attorney was the closing attorney and was only hired/paid to do the title work/closing prep/closing paperwork. The attorney was not hired to protect the buyer. There is a big difference here in what the attorney's responsibility was.

Buyer: the survey that you posted...that records the easements also, right? didn't you get the survey prior to closing and also review the survey ahead of time?

When is the new road going to be started? When is the new entrance going to be started? Maybe these will never happen?

Is there any disclosure paperwork that was given to you or SHOULD have been given to you on this matter? I think you should talk to a different attorney. The closing attorney is more worried about covering their rear.

For all future buyers. Make sure you read and understand survey AND title search documents prior to closing.
Not quite sure how you think a survey would have told anything. A survey tells you how the physical world lines up with the legal description. I see no way it would deal with a future change driven by an easement.

I do find it interesting that it is not customary to provide a prelim to the buyer well before closing. We certainly do and also read it ourselves looking for any surprises.
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Old 07-21-2012, 06:35 PM
 
14,407 posts, read 16,320,098 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lvoc View Post
Not quite sure how you think a survey would have told anything. A survey tells you how the physical world lines up with the legal description. I see no way it would deal with a future change driven by an easement.

I do find it interesting that it is not customary to provide a prelim to the buyer well before closing. We certainly do and also read it ourselves looking for any surprises.
Easements are shown on surveys. This is typical of every survey I have seen.

The easement was recorded prior to the sale (so it is not a "future change"). The survey would have caught the easement if the easement was recorded prior to the survey. the road might be a future change, but the easement for the road is already in place now.
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:13 PM
 
Location: Lexington, SC
4,281 posts, read 10,300,181 times
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Pajama

While you snottyingly rejected my first reply along the lines of buyer beware, what would it take to make you one blueberry picking, care free, happy mama? Just name it.
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Old 07-21-2012, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,423,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by accufitgolf View Post
Pajama

While you snottyingly rejected my first reply along the lines of buyer beware, what would it take to make you one blueberry picking, care free, happy mama? Just name it.
Accu...I'm not gonna lie. Your posts confuse me. Please declare yourself..are you team Pajama or not?

What would it take to make me happy? You waving your magic wand and turning my 2 gallons of blueberries into cobbler, pie, and dumplings.

Really..what would restore me to my carefree blueberry pickin self would be keeping my land in tact without them blazing a damn trail through it. However, I'm fairly certain that is not even remotely possible so next would be paid the amount of decreased value..along with moving/realtor expenses as I can't imagine living here once the roads go in.
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Old 07-21-2012, 08:50 PM
 
Location: southwest TN
8,179 posts, read 14,273,226 times
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As a former title searcher and examiner for a closing attorney, I think you need to get a different real estate attorney ASAP. Find one who has court experience and also is willing to sue another attorney. That is going to be a little bit more difficult.

Easements are very much a part of a description.
Good luck to you, OP.
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Old 07-21-2012, 09:44 PM
 
2,619 posts, read 4,112,173 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Annie View Post
As a former title searcher and examiner for a closing attorney, I think you need to get a different real estate attorney ASAP. Find one who has court experience and also is willing to sue another attorney. That is going to be a little bit more difficult.

Easements are very much a part of a description.
Good luck to you, OP.
Yes. Given that your attorney may have screwed up,, get a new one. Maybe post in the regional PA CD forums?
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Old 07-22-2012, 08:32 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,423,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NY Annie View Post
As a former title searcher and examiner for a closing attorney, I think you need to get a different real estate attorney ASAP. Find one who has court experience and also is willing to sue another attorney. That is going to be a little bit more difficult.

Easements are very much a part of a description.
Good luck to you, OP.
Thanks NY Annie..we are pursing a new real estate attorney to do just that. We are going to approach our closing attorney and offer her the chance to make it right first.

We are also going to contact the person in charge of handling the township condemnation of the land. It would have been listed at that time with our realtor so if they had any contact with her about it..we would add our realtor to the list of folks to sue. My concern is this person is wanting the road project to go smoothly so she may not be willing to disclose any useful information.

Blazer..I just posted in the PA section. Thanks for suggesting that!
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:40 AM
 
14,407 posts, read 16,320,098 times
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Don't tell your current attorney ANYTHING about you getting another lawyer. Not a hint. No threats that you are unhappy. To be honest, how do you expect them to "make it right"? They are not going to give you $40k and are not going to admit that they screwed up.

You might muck things up if you talk to them too much/give them reason to realize they screwed up badly. Paperwork might start getting "lost", etc. Others might be forewarned to keep quiet.

If disclosure is a statel law, and if that one form had the Y/N blank, then they chose not to disclose even though it was required and KNOWN by the seller that there was an easement. This, to me, shows the seller was hiding something and also that they withheld the required disclosure on the form. This disclosure form is very important for your case.

Best of luck to you. this is not going to be easy for you...you have lots of work ahead of you for this.

One other thought. Since this property will eventually bordered by a new road. Is there any possible way in the future that it can be rezoned as commercial? often commercial property has a much higher value than residential and usually these are on main roads. Not sure if it is in a subdivision that would fight this. Often single parcels outside of subdivisions can have an easier path to getting a successful rezone to commercial. A bank or fast food restaurant might prefer that property if there is road access on 3 sides. They would raze the home and build their new building. A less intense rezoning could be OPI - Office Professional which means doctors offices, insurance office, maybe a preschool and such. These are prized and pricey lots as well and often more pleasing to a community. sometimes they can keep your existing home and convert to an office. if you got this place rezoned you could sell at a tidy profit. You would hire a realtor that specializes in selling commercial property as they go after the target commercial customers which are completely different than home buyers.
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Old 07-22-2012, 09:59 AM
 
Location: Virginia
629 posts, read 1,423,406 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sware2cod View Post
Don't tell your current attorney ANYTHING about you getting another lawyer. Not a hint. No threats that you are unhappy. To be honest, how do you expect them to "make it right"? They are not going to give you $40k and are not going to admit that they screwed up.

You might muck things up if you talk to them too much/give them reason to realize they screwed up badly. Paperwork might start getting "lost", etc. Others might be forewarned to keep quiet.

If disclosure is a statel law, and if that one form had the Y/N blank, then they chose not to disclose even though it was required and KNOWN by the seller that there was an easement. This, to me, shows the seller was hiding something and also that they withheld the required disclosure on the form. This disclosure form is very important for your case.

Best of luck to you. this is not going to be easy for you...you have lots of work ahead of you for this.

One other thought. Since this property will eventually bordered by a new road. Is there any possible way in the future that it can be rezoned as commercial? often commercial property has a much higher value than residential and usually these are on main roads. Not sure if it is in a subdivision that would fight this. Often single parcels outside of subdivisions can have an easier path to getting a successful rezone to commercial. A bank or fast food restaurant might prefer that property if there is road access on 3 sides. They would raze the home and build their new building. A less intense rezoning could be OPI - Office Professional which means doctors offices, insurance office, maybe a preschool and such. These are prized and pricey lots as well and often more pleasing to a community. sometimes they can keep your existing home and convert to an office. if you got this place rezoned you could sell at a tidy profit. You would hire a realtor that specializes in selling commercial property as they go after the target commercial customers which are completely different than home buyers.
I'm on the fence Sware..I wanted to just move forward with a new attorney but my husband feels like we should give ours the opportunity to acknowledge the error and file on her insurance before we come at her with a lawsuit. I agree with you for the many reasons you stated. I'm anxious to discuss the disclosure with a lawyer. I've read in PA law that bankruptcy/foreclosures are excempt from providing them. However, they DID provide one..just not completely filled in. So some clarification is def needed. They may be able to get away with it. Blame right now seems to fall on our attny..and she was hired to represent us..not just for closing as someone mentioned. She was forwarded the contract for review on our behalf and did request some changes in our favor. She also represented the seller.

As far a commercial zoning..we are in a subdivision that would not let that happen. Esp since we are the first thing you see as you enter the neighborhood. Geographically it woulnd't work either. It's a great idea otherwise though. I would be all over it if it was possible.
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Old 07-22-2012, 10:07 AM
 
12,973 posts, read 12,156,757 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sware2cod View Post
Easements are shown on surveys. This is typical of every survey I have seen.

The easement was recorded prior to the sale (so it is not a "future change"). The survey would have caught the easement if the easement was recorded prior to the survey. the road might be a future change, but the easement for the road is already in place now.
It appears the easements would be identified if they were recorded prior to the survey. It would also appear though that in a classical residential survey a surveyor would walk the property with the buyer and point out the various features such as easements. So it would not appear that a survey was done.

In the west surveys are virtually non-existent in normal residential properties. I have been at it a while and I have never seen one. All the information is on a plat. Added easements are recorded against the property number.
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