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Old 07-26-2012, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,753 posts, read 31,645,829 times
Reputation: 12126

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Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeJr View Post
She was the buyer's agent. I had already negotiated a 6% commission with my agent.
Yes I know. Buyer agents still have fees to pay to hang their license with a brokerage.
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Old 07-26-2012, 09:55 PM
 
Location: Phoenix AZ
5,920 posts, read 10,483,015 times
Reputation: 9228
Quote:
Originally Posted by sldream View Post
What in the world does the buyer's agent's fees and customs in his own office have to do with the sale of this property? The main action going on is the sale of the home, i.e. a buyer selecting this particular home to buy. No one cares what an agent wishes to make and should be secondary at best but not at all in the thought process of the buyer UNLESS they agreed to pay their "representation" out of their own pocket for whatever they want to agree to. They can agree to give each other hot oil massages as condition of finding a home AFTER closing if they want to but their separate agreement should in no way be put BEFORE the purchase itself.

Sounds like the agent should find a brokerage that doesn't have junk fees like a breathing fee for having air available for their clients or a listening fee for when a client explains to an agent what they're looking for in a home. My guess is all or most have these junk fees as a profit stream disguised as a cost of doing business. The buyer's agent possibly having to pay their brokerage for a buyer selecting a home that fits their needs has nothing to do with the seller. Some of these real estate players want to lump yet even more fees to already ridiculous closing costs. If the agents had to pay the closing costs for each transaction, I bet there wouldn't be any or very minimal at all.

Lastly, what a seller owes or not on their home has nothing to do with what the selling price or what someone else thinks he should accept.
I do have a low-fee broker, and I wouldn't write an offer for someone on a property under $75k unless they were family - the check is too small to cover the expense, hassle and liability you pick up on those deals. The seller is grumpy about getting a check for nothing (or writing one to get out of it), and the buyer is grumpy because they bought a dump and can't afford repairs. Why get in the middle of that for a few hundred bucks before taxes?
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:08 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 38,391,825 times
Reputation: 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeJr View Post
No, I would have considered that normal practice and I would have had the opportunity to counter the offer. As it was, the buyer offer was fair and I wanted to accept it. I did not want to accept his agent's terms. I had already negotiated a standard 6% commission with my agent. I did not expect to have to counter offer the buyer's agent.
Clearly you are not thinking about the end game. And that is how much you end up with net. What do you care what someone gets paid as long as you are OK with what you are being paid?

You are also forgetting the fact that this was not the agent's offer. It was the buyer's offer. It was the buyer asking you to pay the agent more.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:25 PM
 
265 posts, read 341,065 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post

...The transaction wasn't held hostage....

...He has a cash offer well above appraised value that would net him more than the house is legally worth....
I should have said the buyer's offer was held hostage instead of the sale. No, the sale was not held hostage. I caved and offered her 1.5% more so she would not derail the deal behind the scenes. I say the offer was held hostage because I could not accept his offer without also accepting her commission demand.

The appraised value is not a legal question. It has nothing to do with the law. It just protects the bank from losing money if they foreclose, i.e., they don't lend more than they can get if they have to sell the property. With a statement like that, your credibility is shot.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,753 posts, read 31,645,829 times
Reputation: 12126
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeJr View Post
I should have said the buyer's offer was held hostage instead of the sale. No, the sale was not held hostage. I caved and offered her 1.5% more so she would not to derail the deal behind the scenes.

The appraised value is not a legal question. It has nothing to do with the law. It just protects the bank from losing money if they foreclose, i.e., they don't lend more than they can get if they have to sell the property. With a statement like that, your credibility is shot.
It is a real estate semantics issue. Real estate agents can't determine the value of a property legally. Only appraisers can. Meaning it wasn't your agent saying the value of the property was $33k, the appraiser did. As you experienced the value varies by appraiser. Didn't write that comment with the best word order.

The buyer wasn't held hostage. They helped craft and signed the offer. Are you saying the cash buyer was an incompetent person that can't read?
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:35 PM
 
265 posts, read 341,065 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
Clearly you are not thinking about the end game. And that is how much you end up with net. What do you care what someone gets paid as long as you are OK with what you are being paid?
Yes, I was thinking about the end game. I wanted to accept his offer. I did not want to accept her outrageous commission demand. I knowing reduced my net by offering her 1.5% more than I agree to with my agent just get the deal done but I would have obviously preferred not to have to pay more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
You are also forgetting the fact that this was not the agent's offer. It was the buyer's offer. It was the buyer asking you to pay the agent more.
Oh Yeah, right...wink, wink
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:40 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 38,391,825 times
Reputation: 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeJr View Post
Yes, I was thinking about the end game. I wanted to accept his offer. I did not want to accept her outrageous commission demand. I knowing reduced my net by offering her 1.5% more than I agree to with my agent just get the deal done but I would have obviously preferred not to have to pay more.



Oh Yeah, right...wink, wink
You already said you would have been fine if the offer just came in at that much less. Or if they had asked you to cover 3K of closing costs. You are getting hung up on details that shouldn't matter to you.


The buyer is asking in THEIR offer for you to pay their agent more. It isn't any more complicated than that. Painting the picture of an evil agent may somehow make you feel better, but if you are upset at the request you should be upset at the buyer for asking for it.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Phoenix AZ
5,920 posts, read 10,483,015 times
Reputation: 9228
Quote:
Originally Posted by NativeJr View Post
I should have said the buyer's offer was held hostage instead of the sale. No, the sale was not held hostage. I caved and offered her 1.5% more so she would not derail the deal behind the scenes. I say the offer was held hostage because I could not accept his offer without also accepting her commission demand.

The appraised value is not a legal question. It has nothing to do with the law. It just protects the bank from losing money if they foreclose, i.e., they don't lend more than they can get if they have to sell the property. With a statement like that, your credibility is shot.
To be honest, I think the agents actions were a violation of the *spirit* of the realtor code of conduct. But depending on the sequence of events & how things were worded, it might not be a violation, and I'd suspect if this agent is making a living selling low-buck properties, they likely did it in a way that would pass muster.

That said, you weren't "injured" materially - they presented an offer and you agreed. If anything, the agent may have violated his/her fiduciary obligation to the buyer by steering them to your house, instead of cheaper comparables.

In any case, I don't see you getting any money back, and if your state is anything like mine, the agent will still have a license to steal after the smoke clears, no matter who you complain to. If you're buying and selling multiple properties, perhaps you should join the "thieve's guild" yourself, and cut out the middleman. I got a key-chain, a lapel-pin, and a ball-point-pen when I joined!
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:48 PM
 
265 posts, read 341,065 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
It is a real estate semantics issue. Real estate agents can't determine the value of a property legally. Only appraisers can. Meaning it wasn't your agent saying the value of the property was $33k, the appraiser did. As you experienced the value varies by appraiser. Didn't write that comment with the best word order.
I only mentioned the appraisals for background information. However, the appraisals are irrelevant. This was a cash buyer who recognized the value in the house, chose not to have it appraised, and all considering offered a fair price that I wanted to accept.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
The buyer wasn't held hostage. They helped craft and signed the offer. Are you saying the cash buyer was an incompetent person that can't read?
I really have no idea which one of them crafted the deal. Unless he was an experienced buyer well versed in real estate offers, my guess is that his agent recommended how the offer should be crafted. While I totally agree it was the buyer's offer, I am not so naive as to believe the agent did not play a major part in writing it. He has bought this house to live in. He is not an investor.
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Old 07-26-2012, 10:58 PM
 
265 posts, read 341,065 times
Reputation: 184
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
You already said you would have been fine if the offer just came in at that much less. Or if they had asked you to cover 3K of closing costs. You are getting hung up on details that shouldn't matter to you.
Not really, what I said is that if he reduced his offer accordingly, I could counter his offer. I did not expect to have to counter the agent's demands.

Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
The buyer is asking in THEIR offer for you to pay their agent more. It isn't any more complicated than that. Painting the picture of an evil agent may somehow make you feel better, but if you are upset at the request you should be upset at the buyer for asking for it.
Yeah, I should have just stuck to my original desire and told her "nice try" and countered at his price without her additional commission demand. My guess is they would have accepted it.
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