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Old 08-07-2012, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 12,748,176 times
Reputation: 3812

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Quote:
Originally Posted by marksmu View Post
...
I have helped so many employees that the word is out that all they to do is ask me for help and that I help. They find properties on HAR and ask for my assistance in filling out the contract and negotiating with the seller. It takes very little time on my end. (half the time is spent convincing the listing agent to show them the property without another realtor...many outright refuse which is when I mail letters to the property owner about their representation)
Ok, so if you want to stop bashing Realtors, then I'll stop bashing Attorneys.

Many listing agents are not willing to run out and show a listing to someone they don't know, for many reasons.
  • They do not know the person they are meeting at the home
  • Therefore, security is a risk for both male and female, but moreso for a female agent
  • They do not know if the person is wanting to case the home for a future burglary
  • They do not know if the person is qualified, or just a tire kicker
  • They don't know if the person is actually represented by another agent but is out looking at homes on their own, and just lying to the agent
Consequently, many of these agents will require that any buyer prospect meet them first at their office so they can qualify the person for their seller client. This way other people see the person(s), and the office knows where they are going, so the security risk is reduced.

At the office, if the person is unrepresented, the agent will present an Agency Disclosure for the prospect to sign, stating that the listing agent is representing the seller.

S/he will obtain a pre-qualification form so the seller will know the prospect is qualified. If in the case of you sending a buyer, then it would help if you have already had the buyer get pre-qualified and they have the form in hand signed by the mortgage broker and the buyer.

One of my sellers will not allow his home to be shown without a buyers agent with them, and only after the agent has assured us that the buyer is pre-qualified for this price range.

He allowed me to show a home to the client of a buyers agent who was out of town. I had identified the agent and as a favor to him I showed the home without the agents presence, being extremely careful to not say anything that could accidentally create an implied agency, which would be interfering with the buyer/agent/client relationship.

 
Old 08-07-2012, 10:37 AM
 
3,402 posts, read 4,174,916 times
Reputation: 2399
Quote:
Originally Posted by marksmu View Post
You need to go back and re-read all of my posts on this thread and the thread related to using a copyrighted offer form.

I have clearly stated that Buyers Agents DO serve a purpose for SOME buyers. However, it is my opinion that realtors are intentionally excluding and intimidating buyers who choose not to be represented by a Buyers agent. There are people who are fully capable of handling a RE transaction without a buyers agent.

Some listing agents have no problem at all dealing with an unrepresented buyer - some flat out will not do it...Buyers agents do serve a purpose but the systematic exclusion and intimidation of unrepresented buyers is unethical.
There is no systematic exclusion or intimidation of unrepresented buyers, you are making that up. Can you back up this statement?

The truth is an unethical lawyer can do a lot more damage screwing over his own client than a whole pile of unethical real estate agents can. Compared to a lawyer we are limited in what we do and the potential damage we can cause. Who is really worse?
 
Old 08-07-2012, 10:56 AM
 
1,731 posts, read 2,310,731 times
Reputation: 3434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyngawf View Post
There is no systematic exclusion or intimidation of unrepresented buyers, you are making that up. Can you back up this statement?
Yes I can back that up all day long over and over again....Email is permanent and I keep all of it.

This is copy pasted from a transaction I worked on that failed b/c the broker refused to deal with a non-agent. We were a full price cash offer with a 10 day option period....We sent the Purchase Contract without all the other necessary addendum as we wanted a response to the price before we filled out the remaining paperwork....and before everyone jumps on the its not a binding contract without the addendum band wagon - that is untrue....A contract is a valid contract with or without the addendum....the addendum can be done after an agreement as to price has been reached....

Realtors Response:
>Are you a licensed realtor ? We
> > cannot work with an individual without representation.
> There
> > are also a lot more forms necessary to complete a
> contract.
> > If you are an attorney , you must also have your re
> license


My response:
I am not a licensed realtor. The TRELA section 1101.005
> specifically exempts attorneys from requiring brokers/agents
> when conducting real estate transactions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyngawf View Post
The truth is an unethical lawyer can do a lot more damage screwing over his own client than a whole pile of unethical real estate agents can. Compared to a lawyer we are limited in what we do and the potential damage we can cause. Who is really worse?
I dont disagree that an attorney can do far more damage....but the systematic exclusion does exist whether realtors are willing to admit it or not. I see it frequently.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 11:06 AM
 
3,402 posts, read 4,174,916 times
Reputation: 2399
Quote:
Originally Posted by marksmu View Post
Yes I can back that up all day long over and over again....Email is permanent and I keep all of it.

This is copy pasted from a transaction I worked on that failed b/c the broker refused to deal with a non-agent. We were a full price cash offer with a 10 day option period....We sent the Purchase Contract without all the other necessary addendum as we wanted a response to the price before we filled out the remaining paperwork....and before everyone jumps on the its not a binding contract without the addendum band wagon - that is untrue....A contract is a valid contract with or without the addendum....the addendum can be done after an agreement as to price has been reached....

Realtors Response:
>Are you a licensed realtor ? We
> > cannot work with an individual without representation.
> There
> > are also a lot more forms necessary to complete a
> contract.
> > If you are an attorney , you must also have your re
> license


My response:
I am not a licensed realtor. The TRELA section 1101.005
> specifically exempts attorneys from requiring brokers/agents
> when conducting real estate transactions.



I dont disagree that an attorney can do far more damage....but the systematic exclusion does exist whether realtors are willing to admit it or not. I see it frequently.
This proves nothing. The requirement for the buyer to have representation comes from the seller not the agent. A broker/agent cannot just reject it outright without presenting it unless he has the OK from the seller. Was this an REO property? I know that often they operate this way, but you are blaming the agent for something that is the sellers choice. When the REO problem goes away I am sure you will see a lot less of it.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 11:43 AM
 
Location: Needham, MA
6,348 posts, read 9,150,511 times
Reputation: 5335
Quote:
Originally Posted by marksmu View Post
My response:
I am not a licensed realtor. The TRELA section 1101.005
> specifically exempts attorneys from requiring brokers/agents
> when conducting real estate transactions.
Very interesting. In my state, we cannot pay a commission or a referral fee to an unlicensed party. Lawyers are not only allowed to have a RE license but are actually exempt from many of the licensing requirements like pre-licensing education and the licensing exam. If you've passed the MA bar exam all you have to do is fill out a form and mail it in with a check for the licensing fee and just like that you get in the mail not a sales license but actually a broker's license.

In my neck of the woods, it's quite common for the buyer's agent to be required to attend all showings in order to receive a commission.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 11:44 AM
 
1,731 posts, read 2,310,731 times
Reputation: 3434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyngawf View Post
This proves nothing. The requirement for the buyer to have representation comes from the seller not the agent. A broker/agent cannot just reject it outright without presenting it unless he has the OK from the seller. Was this an REO property? I know that often they operate this way, but you are blaming the agent for something that is the sellers choice. When the REO problem goes away I am sure you will see a lot less of it.
No - this was not REO...that was the Broker's policy not a requirement of the seller. My offer was eventually given to the Seller four days later. The same day the offer was finally submitted a second full price offer was received. The seller accepted the other contract....most likely on the recommendation of his broker so he did not have to deal with a non-realtor, but that is just my assumption I cant prove that.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 11:49 AM
 
1,731 posts, read 2,310,731 times
Reputation: 3434
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePRU View Post
Very interesting. In my state, we cannot pay a commission or a referral fee to an unlicensed party. Lawyers are not only allowed to have a RE license but are actually exempt from many of the licensing requirements like pre-licensing education and the licensing exam. If you've passed the MA bar exam all you have to do is fill out a form and mail it in with a check for the licensing fee and just like that you get in the mail not a sales license but actually a broker's license.

In my neck of the woods, it's quite common for the buyer's agent to be required to attend all showings in order to receive a commission.
In Texas, lawyers are exempt from the entire Real Estate Act except we cant act as a broker by employing agents. However, we are not agents/brokers...we get Credit for much of the course work if we want to be agents/brokers, but still must pass the exam and be an agent first and then after 2 years can be a broker..

We are permitted to buy/sell for ourselves and others, but Agents/Brokers claim we are forbidden from collecting commission and refuse to pay one to attorneys...There is a great deal of debate about whether or not a lawyer can accept a commission...The statute is not 100% clear on this issue...That has not ever come up for me though b/c I have never even asked for a commission for what I do.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 12:04 PM
 
Location: Needham, MA
6,348 posts, read 9,150,511 times
Reputation: 5335
Quote:
Originally Posted by marksmu View Post
We are permitted to buy/sell for ourselves and others, but Agents/Brokers claim we are forbidden from collecting commission and refuse to pay one to attorneys...There is a great deal of debate about whether or not a lawyer can accept a commission...The statute is not 100% clear on this issue...That has not ever come up for me though b/c I have never even asked for a commission for what I do.
Interesting, many would argue though that in order to refuse a commission you would first need to able to accept one. I have no knowledge of Texas licensing law though so I can't really continue the discussion beyond throwing that out there.

Personally, I think the OP just went about this the wrong way and his chosen tact shows a serious lack of knowledge when it comes to dealing with people. Another reason why it would only benefit him to work with an agent. If you approach the seller about reducing the commission, they're going to want the savings too. If you approach the agent about making more money, that's the more likely person to say "yes." The result you get will vary from agent to agent, but I think it's the scenario more likely to bring success. Just assuming that the co-broke is 3% (I see very few 3% co-brokes in these parts FYI) and that you would be able to get that off the house is really unrealistic.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 12:15 PM
 
3,402 posts, read 4,174,916 times
Reputation: 2399
Quote:
Originally Posted by marksmu View Post
No - this was not REO...that was the Broker's policy not a requirement of the seller. My offer was eventually given to the Seller four days later. The same day the offer was finally submitted a second full price offer was received. The seller accepted the other contract....most likely on the recommendation of his broker so he did not have to deal with a non-realtor, but that is just my assumption I cant prove that.
I don't believe it. Policy or not, in order to do that a broker has to have the sellers agreement. A broker cannot decide the terms of a clients purchase contract without clients consent and it should be in writing. I know why the banks do it with REO's, but why would any other seller want to eliminate potential buyers? I don't believe this happens to you as often as you would have us believe.
 
Old 08-07-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,772 posts, read 31,819,744 times
Reputation: 12174
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatday View Post
AZ REALTORS do not try to interfere with the listing agreement as there is no language in the Purchase offer dealing with ANYTHING related to the commission or commission rate / amount. Commission is between the Seller and Listing Broker.
Our contracts are the same way. Commission agreements are separate from agreements between the buyer and seller. If it goes in the contract it needs to be written in as a buyer closing cost just like prepaids and prorations.
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