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Old 08-09-2012, 11:38 PM
 
3,404 posts, read 4,159,417 times
Reputation: 2399

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
When isn't a buyer trying to gain advantage over a seller?



If that is the case, then you'd need to advise your client to seek legal counsel before agreeing to your listing agreement clause regarding your exclusionary policy and what it means for them.



This makes no sense whatsoever. Are you telling me that reverse offers are illegal in Arizona?

You don't counter their offer. You reject their offer and reverse offer on your forms. It is the cleanest way to do things and to my knowledge no state has a law that says that a seller can't initiate the offer process.

rjrcm, true? In AZ a seller can't reverse offer?
It is legal there. I was an agent there before moving to Idaho. I think the captain just wants all transactions to fit into the same box and run smoothly so that there is no extra work required to get all I's dotted and T's crossed.

I have a question for the rest of you? Do you find real estate contracts you've never seen before really as hard to understand as the Captain says they are? I may have to read some paragraphs more than once to make sure, but I think they are written in plain enough English.

 
Old 08-09-2012, 11:55 PM
 
Location: Phoenix AZ
5,920 posts, read 10,518,379 times
Reputation: 9228
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
Why do you equate verbal offers and non standard contracts with buyers fielding calls from anyone? Isn't that the agent's job?

Call it whatever you want, but any agent that didn't want to have to communicate verbal offers and non standard forms would not be my agent for very long.

The Internet and technology *are* changing the real-estate business - now agents are being lectured about "fiduciary responsibility" by people like the OP, who want to twist the law to allow themselves the ability to interfere with their contracts.

If you stand back and look objectively at the proliferation of threads on this forum and others, you'll see the vast majority of those spouting off about "presenting *all* offers" are lowballers and "ethical" Internet lawyers.

Id be glad to swear on a bible that when I listed my own property for rent just a few weeks ago, I received what qualifies under state law as a "written offer" from "Oscarthegrouch73". I did present that offer to my client (me), and I did put it where it belonged (in the trash!). I can only imagine how pleased a client would be to hear about an "offer" from "oscarthegrouch73".

As a seller, I'd rather *not* have to listen to offers like that, perhaps you want them, but I would want an agent (that I'm paying!) to separate out the dreamers and the nuts.
 
Old 08-10-2012, 12:05 AM
 
Location: Pinal County, Arizona
25,107 posts, read 34,462,367 times
Reputation: 4893
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
rjrcm, true? In AZ a seller can't reverse offer?

Are you asking if we do "Counter Offers"? I have, in 44+ years, never heard of a "reverse offer".

We do Counter Offers all the time.
 
Old 08-10-2012, 12:12 AM
 
3,404 posts, read 4,159,417 times
Reputation: 2399
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippyman View Post
The Internet and technology *are* changing the real-estate business - now agents are being lectured about "fiduciary responsibility" by people like the OP, who want to twist the law to allow themselves the ability to interfere with their contracts.

If you stand back and look objectively at the proliferation of threads on this forum and others, you'll see the vast majority of those spouting off about "presenting *all* offers" are lowballers and "ethical" Internet lawyers.

Id be glad to swear on a bible that when I listed my own property for rent just a few weeks ago, I received what qualifies under state law as a "written offer" from "Oscarthegrouch73". I did present that offer to my client (me), and I did put it where it belonged (in the trash!). I can only imagine how pleased a client would be to hear about an "offer" from "oscarthegrouch73".

As a seller, I'd rather *not* have to listen to offers like that, perhaps you want them, but I would want an agent (that I'm paying!) to separate out the dreamers and the nuts.
Are you sure that oscarthegrouch73 wasn't the name of someones LLC or trust? It happens. I sold a house where the seller was something like Apples to Oranges. I buy things under the name of a living trust. It can be legal to buy things in other than your actual name.
 
Old 08-10-2012, 01:49 AM
 
Location: Phoenix AZ
5,920 posts, read 10,518,379 times
Reputation: 9228
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyngawf View Post
Are you sure that oscarthegrouch73 wasn't the name of someones LLC or trust? It happens. I sold a house where the seller was something like Apples to Oranges. I buy things under the name of a living trust. It can be legal to buy things in other than your actual name.
This was a rental, not a purchase, the the agency law is the same, it was an "offer" delivered electronically, just as the original posters offer was. 3rd party websites will deliver emails to the listing agent, and those emails sometimes do contain "offers". I didn't want "oscarthegrouch73" as a tenant, and the terms of his offer were unreasonable, but it was an "offer" just the same.
 
Old 08-10-2012, 08:08 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,579 posts, read 38,470,697 times
Reputation: 16101
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zippyman View Post
As a seller, I'd rather *not* have to listen to offers like that, perhaps you want them, but I would want an agent (that I'm paying!) to separate out the dreamers and the nuts.
As a seller I would want to hear about the offer and then have my agent give me their opinion of that offer. Does it make my statement sound better if I throw in a (that I'm paying for) statment as well?
 
Old 08-10-2012, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 12,716,810 times
Reputation: 3810
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zyngawf View Post
Do you also want an agent that will reject a full price cash offer at his own discretion, without even showing it to you just because it is drawn up on a form he doesn't like? Captain Bill, people aren't that stupid.
No one said anyone is stupid. I also did not say I would reject anything. I am the agent and I have no authority to reject anything.

I said I would ADVISE my client. I said I would inform my client that I am not qualified to interpret that contract for him. I said my advice is to EITHER reject it and get it on the standard contract that I am trained on, or get legal advice.

That is for the sole purpose of protecting my client, which is my duty. If the seller looks at the contract and says to go with it, then I follow his instructions as required. But he has been advised.

Quote:
Not all things drawn up by a lawyer are so far to the buyers favor to be scary...
Just how far in the buyers favor does it have to be to be scary? Just a little bit in the buyers favor is too much.

We have an excellent contract in Arizona. It is equal in it's protection for both buyer and seller. A sellers agent can give the blank for to an unrb to fill out. There is absolutely no need to use a third party contract.
 
Old 08-10-2012, 08:51 AM
 
Location: DFW - Coppell / Las Colinas
30,042 posts, read 34,749,700 times
Reputation: 36097
Quote:
Originally Posted by Captain Bill View Post
There is absolutely no need to use a third party contract.
Don't you just love Relo Companies addendums. They either 1. Say what our contract just said or 2. Have no application to our situation. Many times our contracts are more strict on time frames and terms.

I recently had a Relo Buyer addendum for the 1st time I was suppose to use but it contradicted many terms of the TX contract and put the buyer in a weaker position.
 
Old 08-10-2012, 08:52 AM
 
Location: Gilbert - Val Vista Lakes
6,069 posts, read 12,716,810 times
Reputation: 3810
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
...

Call it whatever you want, but any agent that didn't want to have to communicate verbal offers and non standard forms would not be my agent for very long.
I understand exactly what you're saying, and I think you may be missing the point.
It is not about an agent not wanting to communicate a verbal offer, or not wanting to use non standard forms. It is about providing advice and protecting the client. We are required to follow all your legal instructions, and we're required to provide you with advice so you can make an educated decision.

Regarding verbal offers:
  • In real estate an offer must be in writing in order to be enforceable.
  • The typical verbal offer is the buyer agent working with a low baller throwing out as many feelers he can, because he knows he has such a minute chance of anyone accepting his verbal offer. Also, a verbal offer is not going to cover all the terms. What can happen is the two parties think they have a deal on price, then the written offer comes in completely different so there is no chance of having a deal.
  • If my seller wants me to convey verbal offers I will certainly do that, and I have, and never has one been accepted.
  • Again it is up to the seller. If he does not give me written instructions to the contrary, then I must present ALL offers, and I will. And even with the written instructions, I will still let the seller know I have the offer in case he has decides to see it.
Regarding non standard contract forms:
  • An agent is not allowed to practice real estate in areas where he is not proficient without informing the client.
    .
  • Such as, my license allows me to sell land. However, I am not proficient in land and am not up on all the inspections that are required and what to look for. If a buyer asked me to help him buy land, and I agreed, I would have to advise him that I do not have sufficient knowledge. In reality I would not help him because I do not have sufficient knowledge. I would refer him to someone who specializes in land. I stick to what I know best, which is single family residences.
    .
  • My license allows me to practice law in a very limited window. I am not an attorney, but I know that just one misplaced word can change the meaning of a term. I am trained in the AAR standard contract. I have many hours in class room education on these standard contracts. I read them regularly.
    .
  • If someone gives me a 15 page contract that I have never seen before, then I must advise my client that I am not familiar with that contract, and there may be terms in there that mostly protect the buyer. And it order to protect my client, I must advise him to get legal advice on that contract, or reject it.
    .
  • Once my client has been advised of the risk (which is my duty) then I must, and will, follow his instructions. If he tells me to read and use that contract and counter the terms, I will.
Would you not want an agent who is going to look out for your best interest and provide you with advice, rather than one who would not provide that advice and risk you being damaged by that contract, just so he could get your house sold and get a commission?

Our job is get your home sold at the highest possible price. However, there is much more to the job than that. It is also to protect you from being sued. In Arizona, the standard AAR contract is your friend. The contract written by an attorney for a buyer is the buyers friend, not yours. But the choice is yours.
 
Old 08-10-2012, 09:03 AM
 
3,404 posts, read 4,159,417 times
Reputation: 2399
[quote=Captain Bill;25569609]
Quote:
No one said anyone is stupid. I also did not say I would reject anything. I am the agent and I have no authority to reject anything.
Did you are did you not want to put a clause in the contract so that you can reject all offers unless they are written on just the one form you like? No, you didn't say anyone was stupid, but it really sounds like you want to treat you clients as though they are.

Quote:
I said I would ADVISE my client. I said I would inform my client that I am not qualified to interpret that contract for him. I said my advice is to EITHER reject it and get it on the standard contract that I am trained on, or get legal advice.

That is for the sole purpose of protecting my client, which is my duty. If the seller looks at the contract and says to go with it, then I follow his instructions as required. But he has been advised.
This is what I'm talking about. You won't do your job unless it is written on the contract you like. This is to protect you and no one else.

Quote:
Just how far in the buyers favor does it have to be to be scary? Just a little bit in the buyers favor is too much.
You missed my point entirely. You have to read it to know what it is. To assume it's bad and reject it just because an attorney wrote it is doing your client a disservice.

Quote:
We have an excellent contract in Arizona. It is equal in it's protection for both buyer and seller. A sellers agent can give the blank for to an unrb to fill out. There is absolutely no need to use a third party contract.
Giving an unrepresented buyer a blank contract to fill out is something I would never do. When they send it back to you filled out wrong then you have to counter to correct everything anyway. I think it's the same difference if it's that or a different contract. Either way I would have to counter to end up with something that would be OK for my seller to sign.
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