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Unless the agent has a buyer agency agreement in place for compensation it doesn't impact the buyer in any way. I don't think we want to confuse consumers into thinking it impacts them somehow as this is an agent to agent issue. All we need to do is educate them to talk to their new agent about the situation like this and let the agent deal with it.
If the state were to see it as having 2 agency agreements in place and she closes with agent 2, the buyer could still have to pay agent 1 a brokerage fee out of pocket so that wouldn't be an agent to agent issue. As we know states have different rules and I'm not comfortable speaking on specific agency laws in this instance.
Edit: I'm not saying this is the case. I'm just playing devils advocate and pointing out a potential issue. I really have no idea if agent 1 went after the buyer for commission or after the second agent for procuring cause how it would go. I just don't feel it's as clear cut as the people arguing on either side feel.
I was working with a broker for two weeks. he would usually find houses which I liked & he would show it to me. I found a house which I liked & put an offer on. The offer was rejected.
Now, I have parted ways with the broker & I did not have any buyer agency agreement with him.
I have started looking for houses with another agent but I have not found something which matches what I want. I cant seem to remove the first house from my mind, So I want to put an offer on it. Can I still put another offer on the same house with the new agent? Is there any time limit or so before I can do it.
Its not been much time since my first offer & also, would second broker get the commission or first one since he was the one who showed us the house first time.
In effect there has to be an unbroken chain of events for the first broker to be the procuring cause. Had you gone to another broker and not looked at other homes, then chances are that the first broker would have been the procurer. However, if looking a couple other homes was a smoke screen, the panel may see through that and determine the first agent to be the procurer.
So as others have advised, discuss this with your current agent, and have this agent discuss this with the first agent so it can be resolved in advance.
If the state were to see it as having 2 agency agreements in place and she closes with agent 2, the buyer could still have to pay agent 1 a brokerage fee out of pocket so that wouldn't be an agent to agent issue. As we know states have different rules and I'm not comfortable speaking on specific agency laws in this instance.
Edit: I'm not saying this is the case. I'm just playing devils advocate and pointing out a potential issue. I really have no idea if agent 1 went after the buyer for commission or after the second agent for procuring cause how it would go. I just don't feel it's as clear cut as the people arguing on either side feel.
But the OP said they didn't sign a buyer agency agreement so they have no legal agreement to pay agent #1. How would the buyer be responsible for payment to Agent #1 without a buyer agency agreement?
The laws governing "procuring cause" vary in every state. I have been a Realtor in two states. The one in the northeast, at the time, would consider the agent that "put the buyer in the house" as procuring cause, especially if the agent drew up an offer to purchase contract, even if it never came to agreeing on price. Buyer agency agreements were never invented in that state. However, in the southern state they've changed the rules a few times over the past 10 years or so. Now they require a buyer agency agreement. An agent can bring an offer on a property he/she has never showed to their client. BUT, to make it legit, the agent must go into the house at least once before the closing to have "knowledge" of the property. It is really silly, because the whole purpose for buyer agency agreements are for the agent to represent the buyer, fiduciary duty, etc.; and disclose material facts if known, and sometimes even if unknown or discovered during a showing. My own person residence was sold by me to a buyer driving by w/o his "agent". Because my sign was on my property, I did not have to cooperate with his agent, he was touring the area on his own and I just happened to be reading a book on the porch! Out of professional respect, I had his agent come over and gave her 3% commission because as an owner it was worth it to me to have her with the fiduciary duty, not me. She did turn out to be a clueless agent, but hey, they're out there, what can I say. If you want to get technical, it was me who was the procuring cause. She just happened to see the sign, her agent never gave her the address or where to do her drive bys. C'est la vie.
Real estate laws are state specific. Absolutely no harm in the OP getting advice from the local Board, it's free. And why borrow trouble and involve agents etc. Silly and counter-productive.
...Real estate laws are state specific. Absolutely no harm in the OP getting advice from the local Board, it's free. And why borrow trouble and involve agents etc. Silly and counter-productive....
I still don't understand why you want the OP to contact the board about an issue that the agents should resolve themselves if necessary. The OP said they didn't have an employment agreement with the first agent. The OP has a new agent, let that agent submit the offer and deal with it. If the offer is accepted and closed, then the agents/brokers can argue about who gets commission.
I still don't understand why you want the OP to contact the board about an issue that the agents should resolve themselves if necessary. The OP said they didn't have an employment agreement with the first agent. The OP has a new agent, let that agent submit the offer and deal with it. If the offer is accepted and closed, then the agents/brokers can argue about who gets commission.
I still don't understand why you want the OP to contact the board about an issue that the agents should resolve themselves if necessary. The OP said they didn't have an employment agreement with the first agent. The OP has a new agent, let that agent submit the offer and deal with it. If the offer is accepted and closed, then the agents/brokers can argue about who gets commission.
Because REAL ESTATE LAWS AND LICENSING LAWS ARE STATE SPECIFIC. Boards get these type of questions from the general public routinely, he's not filing a complaint for crying out loud, he just needs a simple answer because he is confused.
There is no clear cut answer to the OP's situation because we are all obviously in different states.
How can anyone give a valid opinion without knowing where the property is located? We are NOT lawyers, he doesn't need a lawyer of course ............ but agents are giving opinions based on their own local knowledge. That "knowledge" may not be legal in the OP's state.
If he wants that house, he needs valid advice specific to his location so he is SURE how to proceed so that arguments and hard feelings between agents are avoided, and the OP becomes an informed consumer with the ability to proceed with a proper answer.
There are others in the general public reading these forums for advice because they may want advice to avoid a similar situation. There is nothing wrong with being a properly informed consumer.
But the OP said they didn't sign a buyer agency agreement so they have no legal agreement to pay agent #1. How would the buyer be responsible for payment to Agent #1 without a buyer agency agreement?
As I understand some states consider writing an offer to have created an agency relationship. I don't know how it works in VA. I think it's probably good advice to at least notify the new agent of the scenario.
I mentioned my state as VA at the start for I understood that each state as different laws regarding to real estate.
I worked with agent 1 for some more time after my first offer failure. I did not like the way he working when I asked him to put an offer on another house, which also did not work out. So, I decided to go with some one else. I hope it clarifies stuff.
I have told the second agent about the first house I liked & the offer when i started thinking of the first house again. The second agent is unfortunately a little young on the real estate scene, so I am not sure whether he knows what to do exactly in this scenario. That's the reason, i wanted to find out from experienced people who know more about it.
I know, some may say why go with rookie, but he came with some nice reference & felt like giving the young man chance to grow.
Because REAL ESTATE LAWS AND LICENSING LAWS ARE STATE SPECIFIC. Boards get these type of questions from the general public routinely, he's not filing a complaint for crying out loud, he just needs a simple answer because he is confused.
There is no clear cut answer to the OP's situation because we are all obviously in different states.
How can anyone give a valid opinion without knowing where the property is located? We are NOT lawyers, he doesn't need a lawyer of course ............ but agents are giving opinions based on their own local knowledge. That "knowledge" may not be legal in the OP's state.
If he wants that house, he needs valid advice specific to his location so he is SURE how to proceed so that arguments and hard feelings between agents are avoided, and the OP becomes an informed consumer with the ability to proceed with a proper answer.
There are others in the general public reading these forums for advice because they may want advice to avoid a similar situation. There is nothing wrong with being a properly informed consumer.
I agree that consumers need to be properly informed, but there is a national definition that impacts 82% of MLS members. The MLS is the legal agreement to share compensation based on procuring cause. 82% of MLS's are REALTOR board run, which means they follow the NAR policy regarding procuring cause. NAR has a definition for it and showing a house only isn't it. If the OP has an agent that is a member of a REALTOR board run MLS then the by-laws for that MLS defer to the NAR definition of procuring cause. NAR has adopted the Black Law Dictionary as their definition.
The proximate cause; the cause originating a series of events which, without break in their continuity, result in the accomplishment of the prime object. The inducing cause; the direct or proximate cause. Substantially synonymous with “efficient cause.” A broker will be regarded as the “procuring cause” of a sale, so as to be entitled to commission, if his efforts are the foundation on which the negotiations resulting in a sale are begun. A cause originating a series of events which, without break in their continuity, result in accomplishment of prime objective of the employment of the broker who is producing a purchaser ready, willing, and able to buy real estate on the owner’s terms. Mohamed v. Robbins, 23 Ariz. App. 195, 531 p.2d 928, 930.
Procuring cause looks at agent behavior as part of it, so if a buyer is uncomfortable writing an offer with an agent due to their behavior that counts in the arbitration panel's decision if they were procuring cause or not. Whatever myths you heard as an agent about writing or showing offers years ago isn't relevant. NAR banned those board practices many years ago.
I really think you are confusing the consumers with your statements. All consumers need to know is that they can change representation if they don't like their agent. If they want to make an offer on a house that they looked at with another agent, just share that with their current agent and let them deal with it if necessary. That is all consumers need to know. It is the consumers job to ensure they are comfortable with their representation and it is the agent's job to ensure they are paid for services.
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