would you pay commisson on this and how much?

[keeperk]

Originally Posted by Brandon Hoffman

No MLS changes the situation for the reason you have outlined. You sound like you'll make a good decision and do whatever you feel is right. It's a foggy situation and I hope you get it sold.

Hum. y, guess foggy is the word. I think after writing about it and reading the posts, it's a dead horse now. Y, our decision is made. Thanks for eveyones posts. I feel good about our decision thus far. Might call on you later!

[Roselvr]

Let me say that I am not only a buyer but also a seller and will try to answer from each point of view. Maybe something I say will help you.

Originally Posted by keeperk

A man and wife found my website, visited it for months until they could come to look at land.

I sign up on a lot of web sites. I have to do this as a buyer & seller to watch my competition or to see properties coming on. Are you saying that by me signing up to receive emails from your site that I am your client? If that's the case, then there's a whole bunch of agents that consider me their client.

Originally Posted by keeperk

My associate and I spent considerable time and effort with them.

What exactly is considerable amount of time? They came to your office, you took them out to see it and answered some questions?

Originally Posted by keeperk

Yes our listing, no buyer's broker agreement, transaction broker for seller and buyer, yes, they found us by our advertising, my associate showed, no nothing happened, no did not have them sign a transaction broker notice.

You're the listing agent, someone calls on one of your listings, sees it with someone in your office, then ends up liking it. In my world as a buyer, I might do this, especially if I see something and maybe I wasn't ready to buy but had to look at it just in case. One never knows.

Originally Posted by keeperk

This was a proposed question as no contract has been written, but thinking ahead as it's in the talks. Come to find out it wasn't the folks we thought it was, but a different set, that yes in fact we showed.

You might show a few people since you listed it for the reasons above.
You also have to understand that in this world, with internet, buyers now go to real estate boards. I can't tell you how many posts I've seen where a buyer walked something with the listing agent & wanted to write an offer. They are told, often by other agents that they should consider getting their own buyers agent.

It's nothing against the listing agent, but has everything to do with the fact that you as the sellers agent are working for the seller. The buyer may feel they need their own representation because really, can the sellers agent be neutral, especially if the buyer wants to lowball? You may know what they will take, and you may know what they want to offer, maybe they mentioned it was overpriced or slipped that it was a good value.

Originally Posted by keeperk

I did call the broker to find out if his clients were people we showed. Assuming he was a pretty direct and upfront guy, he really danced around that question. Trust me, if you seen where this property was, people just don't know about it and other brokers don't just show it w/o getting details from us first. They don't go out there. Hence the questions. I could not imagine he showed it, and could not imagine we were not the ones who did.

In this world, agents might call the listing agent. I had a question about a property I saw online. I emailed the listing agent asking what was wrong with the house as there were no inside photos. My agent very well could have also called to ask. You are the listing agent and know the property, why wouldn't another agent call you? When you take a listing, isn't this what you're paid by the seller to do?

Originally Posted by keeperk

We sent him an email of the list of who we showed properties to. Told him if anyone on the list was his client we would pay him X commission. If he showed it we would pay 1/2. My associate did find out who the customers were from her list and called. Sure enough it was them. No good reason for their action other than they felt they should have a buyer agent and they had seen property with him before last year and knew him.

Ok, no big deal. But come on shoppers! Why don't you just call the other agent to start with! Why have us do your work for you, then you go to the other guy? DAh.

Maybe he was away on vacation or something when they called you. What does it matter, both of you should be getting commission. Maybe they didn't like you as an agent, maybe you didn't click with them? If I don't click with an agent, I am not going to have them negotiate for me.

Originally Posted by keeperk

So, we'll see what happens. He'll want his X $$, and whatever he would not get from us he would charge them. Guess the buyers didn't like that. We offered almost half commission but not the whole half. I don't know what commission he charges, but he said he'll charge them X, try to get what he can from our side and they have to pay him the rest. Beats me what he charges. His services to them will be ask us for the c and r's, which we give to buyers, ask for the board info, which we give to buyers, taxes, we give, blah blah. What a waste of money. So they'll pay him to ask us the questions we've already covered. I'm fine with the buyers other than, just go to the other guy to begin with or be straight. We'll go to someone else if we decide to write a deal.

I have to say, that seeing this as a buyer, you guys do things weird. Here, most agents split the commission in half. That's the way it is. You get your 1/2 because you are the sellers agent, they get their 1/2 because they are the buyers agent. If neither of you were happy with the commission you were getting and wanted to charge me as a buyer I would tell both of you to go to h3ll. 1/2 of commission is better then 1/2 of zero. Maybe you have another buyer?

If I was the seller and knew or found out that the agent I chose to sell my property was nickle & diming behind my back and possibly cost me a sale, I would be ticked to say the least. I can assure you that if I did find out, you would not be listing it again if it is unsold when the contract expires.

When I sign up with you to sell property or a house for me, you tell me what the commission is, and possibly tell me what you keep and what you give to the other agent if you do not sell it. It should be in the contract, and IMO if it is in the contract that you are not splitting in 1/2, the buyers agent takes what you give them. All agents in this world are OK with this. This is how it works here.

Originally Posted by keeperk

Hence my question to figure out what to do upfront. We always want to be fair, but it's really hard to play fair when people, buyer or broker are not straight shooters!

I still have yet to read something that explains to me why you have a problem with this deal. Don't take this personally, because I do so enjoy your posts, but seeing this post by you surprises me if I am reading it right. I know agents that want the whole commission and don't like to share, you didn't take me as that way.

Put yourself in the buyers shoes. Why wouldn't you want your own agent to negotiate the best price for you? While I can understand it sounds like you are in a small town, but this is 2007, buyers have access to the internet and information from other people / agents. What if these buyers didn't realize that asking to see the property by you the listing broker would cause a problem if they decided to actually buy it and get their own agent? Do you want to sell the property or not?

Originally Posted by keeperk

I was really expecting him to be forthcoming, but he's a dancer and was not. He absoultely knew we showed them, and I asked him several times how the heck could they find the land, know about it w/o us? He was very vauge, hum, guess they were just driving around and seen it. These are not drive around and figure out what's for sale kind of lots. I liked the guy, didn't know he was a dog gone dancer. I hate that crap. Just shoot straight! We do.

So what you showed it 1st? You are the listing agent. I can show you tons of posts from people that call the listing agent because they are not ready to buy. They don't feel they want to committ to another buyers agent just yet since they are not serious. You have the listing and are making your commission whether you sell it or not.

[keeperk]

Thanks Roselvr,
Thanks for your point of view. That was the purpose of the post, because I wanted to know what the right thing to do was because we DO NOT come across this sort of thing and want to do the right thing. We normally except for rare occassion (once)sell our own listings. A Blue Moon did come once for another broker to do an offer on one of our listings but the customer contacted her.

I did contact a local broker that's been selling homes and sometimes land (not remote) to ask him how it's done. I never got a flat answer other than call the broker I'd be working with and work it out with him. Which I did. I didn't get a straight answer out of him either. Hence I was left with asking you guys.
For us a considerable amount of time could be an enitre day and a hundred miles to 500 miles round trip, from morning to 10pm or 40 hours encompassing everything. Our first suspects were several lenghtly emails, phone calls and morning to dark showing. The folks at hand were likely just a half a day and only 100 miles.

I will say, I just took on 5 properties from one guy yesterday and he stopped in and wanted to write up the papers for a listing. With this in mind, I did write in there 1% to agent if not the selling and showing broker. I will be tearing up my car to show those properties, it's dangerous, will have to take an extra vehicle and person for saftey sake for the shopper to make sure if one car gets stuck or breaks, we can still get out. It's a 2 man job to show those to make sure all would be well. It will eat up an entire day to show them and a hard day, and it's about 170 miles round trip to do it. And he knows, no one else would take on those properties but me. At least what he's found so far.
Nahhhh, if I show those properties and this happened, ahh no, can't see sharing half.
Just going and looking at the land with him I already have about $300. into it. Broke my thumb, lost my phone, the gas, not to mention what those roads did to my car. Flying thru the air can't be good on the shocks, and the office closed for the day.
What would you think about that case? It's not nickel and diming behind their back. It's staying in business.

Like I said, it's out of the norm that anyone would sell one of our properties. Hence why I was asking.
We are not sellers agents btw. We list to show and sell. We sell properties that other brokers have had a shot at for years and failed them. We're here now taking on what others felt was the dirty work. It does costs more to do it, and if it happened All the time, we'd go out of business. We could not survive with 1/2 as a norm.
Thanks really for your point of view. We don't mind splitting. Upfront and truthful is how we operate, we would like the same with whom we're dealing with. We don't blame the shoppers as they are just that shoppers. They did what they did, the broker was not straight, we had to guess the scenerio because he wasn't forthcoming and base a decision on that. I poked and prodded with him to have him get straight so we could discuss the proper thing to do and he avoided that at all costs. He knows very well, this was out of the norm for someone to go to someone else when it came to us. I would guess he would also think there were no clear answers on the 1/2 or he would have just come out and said so. He did not and I did ask point blank.

[Roselvr]

Originally Posted by keeperk

Thanks Roselvr,
Thanks for your point of view. That was the purpose of the post, because I wanted to know what the right thing to do was because we DO NOT come across this sort of thing and want to do the right thing. We normally except for rare occassion (once)sell our own listings. A Blue Moon did come once for another broker to do an offer on one of our listings but the customer contacted her.

You're welcome. With the internet, and people finding things that way, you may have to have a sit down with your office to figure out if you need to change how it will work.

Originally Posted by keeperk

I did contact a local broker that's been selling homes and sometimes land (not remote) to ask him how it's done. I never got a flat answer other than call the broker I'd be working with and work it out with him. Which I did. I didn't get a straight answer out of him either. Hence I was left with asking you guys.

I understand your frustration, and know why you posted. I live in a small town too.

Originally Posted by keeperk

For us a considerable amount of time could be an enitre day and a hundred miles to 500 miles round trip, from morning to 10pm or 40 hours encompassing everything. Our first suspects were several lenghtly emails, phone calls and morning to dark showing. The folks at hand were likely just a half a day and only 100 miles.

I have to say things depend on how much the property is selling for.

Originally Posted by keeperk

I will say, I just took on 5 properties from one guy yesterday and he stopped in and wanted to write up the papers for a listing. With this in mind, I did write in there 1% to agent if not the selling and showing broker. I will be tearing up my car to show those properties, it's dangerous, will have to take an extra vehicle and person for saftey sake for the shopper to make sure if one car gets stuck or breaks, we can still get out. It's a 2 man job to show those to make sure all would be well. It will eat up an entire day to show them and a hard day, and it's about 170 miles round trip to do it. And he knows, no one else would take on those properties but me. At least what he's found so far.
Nahhhh, if I show those properties and this happened, ahh no, can't see sharing half.

As I said up top, maybe you need to change how your office works, especially for a property like you posted. If the commission you are making doesn't even pay the bills to show it, how are you making money? Perhaps the seller may consider offering a buyers agents incentive to make up for the lack of commission they will get?

Either way, your office may have to write a clause for these few times this may happen. It may happen more with people able to find properties online. You need to protect yourself now, so that if it does happen again, you are covered.

Originally Posted by keeperk

Just going and looking at the land with him I already have about $300. into it. Broke my thumb, lost my phone, the gas, not to mention what those roads did to my car. Flying thru the air can't be good on the shocks, and the office closed for the day.
What would you think about that case? It's not nickel and diming behind their back. It's staying in business.

How much commission are we talking about? Surely if the land is $5,000; the commission won't even pay the advertising & gas.

Originally Posted by keeperk

Like I said, it's out of the norm that anyone would sell one of our properties. Hence why I was asking.
We are not sellers agents btw. We list to show and sell. We sell properties that other brokers have had a shot at for years and failed them. We're here now taking on what others felt was the dirty work. It does costs more to do it, and if it happened All the time, we'd go out of business. We could not survive with 1/2 as a norm.

If someone does get a buyers agent, you should have commission already in the contract as I mentioned in the other post. Usually, the buyers agent knows this at some point - here it says agent reciprocy, so they know they get half. If the buyers agent is not ok with the commission they are to get via reading the contract, then it is their problem, and their choice to not show the property. They could very well tell the buyer, sorry, we won't deal with them because of their commission split, so you will have to deal with them.

Originally Posted by keeperk

Thanks really for your point of view. We don't mind splitting. Upfront and truthful is how we operate, we would like the same with whom we're dealing with. We don't blame the shoppers as they are just that shoppers. They did what they did, the broker was not straight, we had to guess the scenerio because he wasn't forthcoming and base a decision on that. I poked and prodded with him to have him get straight so we could discuss the proper thing to do and he avoided that at all costs. He knows very well, this was out of the norm for someone to go to someone else when it came to us. I would guess he would also think there were no clear answers on the 1/2 or he would have just come out and said so. He did not and I did ask point blank.

Then maybe he is wrong. He could be a friend of the buyer and is taking this on as a favor. You will never know the whole story. He could be saying he will have to get XX amount of dollars from them trying to get you to split the commission more. Apparently he knows how you work and is wrong, but hey, think of it this way, you can't blame a guy for trying, can you? He wants to be paid, and maybe he's not happy with the split he would get. His buyers don't have to buy it through him. He can turn them away if he isn't happy.

[keeperk]

Originally Posted by Roselvr

You're welcome. With the internet, and people finding things that way, you may have to have a sit down with your office to figure out if you need to change how it will work.
I am the office and one other person.

I have to say things depend on how much the property is selling for.
As an average in those areas about $25,000. per lot.

If the commission you are making doesn't even pay the bills to show it, how are you making money? Perhaps the seller may consider offering a buyers agents incentive to make up for the lack of commission they will get?
Commission is fine since we sell our own lisitings. If we split all day long, it would not be, but it's not the case Good idea on buyer agent incentive, but it's out of the norm thus far for this type of stuff.
Either way, your office may have to write a clause for these few times this may happen. [B]We describe in our listings with the sellers how we would pay out commissions upfront. In fact we are offering him more than what we put in our listing as good faith.

How much commission are we talking about? 8-10%. The real remote properties 12% as I'll have to take 2 of us and 2 vehicles on every showing. Those are 40K lots and have to have cash buyers only on those, slimmer market, cheap land, more showings, more effort and $$ going out to sell those. One broker charges 15% for remote, but not as remote as ours. But he can charge that all day long as he doens't sell them anyway. My associate got 3 calls in one day from 3 brokers asking us to sell their listings. They list them, but don't sell them.


If someone does get a buyers agent, you should have commission already in the contract as I mentioned in the other post. It's in our listings, not on MLS and we just call each other and ask is how it's always been done.

Thanks for your answers, it was helpful. They are supposed to write the deal on Saturday. We'll see what happens. We won't lose the deal over a commission, we want to sell them. But we'll play chess as the other broker made the first move. I'm a good chess player.

[Roselvr]

Good luck. Let us know how it works out.

[DMenscha]

I had an agent who could show property like nobody else, but she couldn't get someone on paper to save her life. My feeling is, you failed to close the buyer and the other guy did. I'd tip my hat to the other guy and then figure out where I missed putting the buyer on paper and remember that for next time.
It says salesperson on the license, not showsperson.

[keeperk]

Originally Posted by DMenscha

I had an agent who could show property like nobody else, but she couldn't get someone on paper to save her life. My feeling is, you failed to close the buyer and the other guy did. I'd tip my hat to the other guy and then figure out where I missed putting the buyer on paper and remember that for next time.
It says salesperson on the license, not showsperson.

good point! That actually never occured to me as my newbie salesgirl just has a natural knack and sells a bunch no problem. She had a bunch of appt's that week and was running and showing. Yep, could have been some follow up could have been missed out in time. (giving that benefit of the doubt)
Actually I really don't think she missed them on a close as I do think in this case they thought write it with someone else to get a better deal.
We can't win them all over to us I suppose