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After seeing the types who spend all day in meetings in S Florida, arguing over who has too many weeds in their driveway (kid you not, sadly) I will never again buy investment property in an HOA , ever.
Last edited by dreamofmonterey; 02-15-2013 at 12:39 PM..
Reason: add case law
Oh, boy. Found out through a circuitous route my hoa is starting something similar . Hope it doesn't progress. Without giving it away, it's over a small amount regarding a repair it would seem the HOA would cover normally but wouldn't. So...lawyer's research and letter...you got it. Costs more than the simple repair. Let's see how it goes.
Ideally in this case the homeowners would form a new HOA, with bylaws which give it jurisdiction over the common property only, and have that HOA buy the assets of the original HOA out of bankruptcy. Don't know if that's legally possible though, even if you could get the residents to pony up the money.
And our drama unfolds. I discovered through the same route as before that this lawsuit resulted in the HOA losing quickly in court. Never any mention to homeowners. Now the HOA has decided to appeal. So more legal costs. It is already well above the rather small amount the homeowner was fairly due.
Oh, boy. Found out through a circuitous route my hoa is starting something similar . Hope it doesn't progress. Without giving it away, it's over a small amount regarding a repair it would seem the HOA would cover normally but wouldn't. So...lawyer's research and letter...you got it. Costs more than the simple repair. Let's see how it goes.
Do all the residents know about the situation? Perhaps it's time they do?
In the past they have camoflaged things on the financial sheet. For example, what we thought was some sort of insurance on the community was actually health insurance for the staff which started a few months ago. More like that.
No, residents don't know. It was never in the minutes and never brought up at a meeting. (the former controlling president is still in control of the minutes - and thereby in control of the secretary - and edits out this kind of stuff so it's best to actually attend a meeting.) Only the select few board members even knew about it. The mgr, the president, the man who was president but for some reason did not arrange to be this year and instead sits front and center in the audience still speaking from the audience and giving the president the look and the nod on everything. And perhaps one or two others.
But I do know the particular board members who truly care about the community instead of themselves were never told about the win and appeal. They were aware a person was upset about how the mgr and president were handling the a rather small issue in their community. They didn't know it had progressed to court. However, now they know all this. I guess it couldn't be avoided. These nice people have acted quickly. Now they have already spoken with the individual. The 'good guys' hope to bring it up at the next meeting. If they get in a well structured sentence or two, the audience will hear it and word will spread through the community I think. All on that side cannot believe some of the already faulty characters on the board would go this far financially. As far as I can see it is only now coming out because now there is a bill from the lawyer. Not sure, don't know if it was paid under some other guise, but the bill is at issue now.
The bill is at issue also because the individual condo community as a whole is now doing battle with the master association over its division of payment to this lawyer. And that community is about 50/50 on support of the individual who sued.
You know, this is one of those things you think...oh, in the Washington, D.C. area maybe but it'll never happen to me.
I wonder how many places this is going on across the country and residents don't even know about it.
In the past they have camoflaged things on the financial sheet. For example, what we thought was some sort of insurance on the community was actually health insurance for the staff which started a few months ago. More like that.
No, residents don't know. It was never in the minutes and never brought up at a meeting. (the former controlling president is still in control of the minutes - and thereby in control of the secretary - and edits out this kind of stuff so it's best to actually attend a meeting.) Only the select few board members even knew about it. The mgr, the president, the man who was president but for some reason did not arrange to be this year and instead sits front and center in the audience still speaking from the audience and giving the president the look and the nod on everything. And perhaps one or two others.
But I do know the particular board members who truly care about the community instead of themselves were never told about the win and appeal. They were aware a person was upset about how the mgr and president were handling the a rather small issue in their community. They didn't know it had progressed to court. However, now they know all this. I guess it couldn't be avoided. These nice people have acted quickly. Now they have already spoken with the individual. The 'good guys' hope to bring it up at the next meeting. If they get in a well structured sentence or two, the audience will hear it and word will spread through the community I think. All on that side cannot believe some of the already faulty characters on the board would go this far financially. As far as I can see it is only now coming out because now there is a bill from the lawyer. Not sure, don't know if it was paid under some other guise, but the bill is at issue now.
The bill is at issue also because the individual condo community as a whole is now doing battle with the master association over its division of payment to this lawyer. And that community is about 50/50 on support of the individual who sued.
You know, this is one of those things you think...oh, in the Washington, D.C. area maybe but it'll never happen to me.
I wonder how many places this is going on across the country and residents don't even know about it.
Are you in a condo, town home or single family home? And you mentioned staff. Are we talking door man, security or concierge where your community directly hires the individual as opposed to a landscaping service who you contract with and who employs people to fulfill the contract? I can see providing healthcare to the first group since they are directly employed by the HOA, but certainly not the second.
Definitely sounds like there are some questionable practices going on. Do your CC&Rs allow for a board member to be removed by community vote (most do) and if so I'd be out garnering votes to do just that if I was in your shoes.
Are you in a condo, town home or single family home? And you mentioned staff. Are we talking door man, security or concierge where your community directly hires the individual as opposed to a landscaping service who you contract with and who employs people to fulfill the contract? I can see providing healthcare to the first group since they are directly employed by the HOA, but certainly not the second.
Definitely sounds like there are some questionable practices going on. Do your CC&Rs allow for a board member to be removed by community vote (most do) and if so I'd be out garnering votes to do just that if I was in your shoes.
This is happening in a condo sub. We're in SF. Staff is the office. We're self managed. Professional mgt. would be much much less expensive. A few reasonable board members have explored this. The former president in between the current egomaniac and the one who still controls things had a few 'finalist' mgt cos come for info sessions residents could attend. Lawn and other amenities and trash added and the board members who have become enlightened over many years as residents and board members agree our monthly fee could be 1/3 less.
We really only need one person in the office and a part time maintenance man. Lawn care, amenties care, trash, etc are already farmed outside.
What's the maintenance man for? He seems to exist for the condos to call him if they can't do a resident-expected simple thing..they call him and pay separately. We know he's not good at making wood steps though...his attempt caused a few accidents. He claims he can't paint in or out, etc. so that was hired out. He doesn't like to scrub the pool tile. (Some think someone promised his mother to keep him in a job) The master association hired him years ago and pays him.
He does make a mailbox post when needed too. Although that takes a while. A nutshell story....he came to reinstall a sign post that kept getting hit by cars backing up. It didn't occur that it might be in the way so maybe move it a little. He was going to put it in concrete this time. He pulled up, got out and looked at the sign a while. A neighbor asked if he putting it in the ground. He said yes. That's it. So the neighbor said, well, do you have the concrete mix. Yes. A pause. Then, but I forgot the water so I'll have to go back for that. Knowing him, if he went back for anything he wouldn't come back to the post again. So the neighbor said, no water bottle with you? My house has water so I'll get you a bucket. The guy didn't like that. He liked to dilly dally. But the neighbor brought the bucket and kept an eye out to be sure the man knew what he was doing and the post got set.
The old controlling guard would not let go. They liked the former mgr who aged out at about 86 and now have a young guy who is glad for the 20% higher salary, higher than any in our area and more like large city rates, and who insisted on health insurance. The older previous guy had medicare. So now we pay the new guy's insurance plus you need to provide health insurance for others if you do for one. So, same for the secretary and the maintenance man. That's the guy who does work for some of those board members (the good guys have turned him down) for 'free' and freely says it's on the community's time and dollar so it's free to these board members.
And these board members and the new mgr are happy because they use each other equally. The new guy is happy with his pay and benefits and the president and some others are happy that he's otherwise maleable and keeps their secrets.
The rules call for removal of a board member by community vote and an officer by board vote. The thing is the controlling character isn't even on the board. The president is ... well, he locks eyes with the controlling guy all meeting. Strange to watch. He had a sudden burst of anger and took it out on a nice quiet 75 year old board member and threw him off his chair on to the floor a few months ago. And they have a little cult following of elderly ladies he butters up, a guy who has rage issues, and the treasurer who is a stockbroker and invested the hoa money in his company...and worse, in stocks. After several years of losing not only the interest but also much of the principal and coming back up just a little he finally got out of the stocks. (We're not sure why...but something sudden happened.)
The reasonable nice concerned people on the board are in the minority.
Even if one doesn't believe in good vs evil...it's such a clear picture at these board meetings. Odd and unbelievable till people actually see it for themelves. Then they stop coming, don't want to get involved, too hard to deal with when there's so much else to do.
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