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Yeah, they are fiscally unwise to say the least. Three good people fiscally mindful. Hoping for more. Have gotten more community interest now that the fees should have been less (good financial plans presented) and instead were raised. A few years ago about$200,000 ...ah....disappeared. I wasn't going to meetings then and didn't know till the time year limithad passed. This and other things they let slide. Now a few years later it's much more trouble.
A few of us want to try to fix things before we move. Fabulous nature and neighbors otherwise so it's worth a go.
How does $200K disappear? How does a board let it slide?
Are your association's financial statements audited?
In my state, a homeowner can ask for financial statements, bank statements and invoices without limitation. Your financial statement, regardless of audited status should tell you opening balances, income, disbursements and closing balances. $200K cannot just disappear off a balance sheet.
For reasons not clear to me, a lot of people who live in associations buy into rumors instead of getting to the truth.
How does $200K disappear? How does a board let it slide?
Are your association's financial statements audited?
In my state, a homeowner can ask for financial statements, bank statements and invoices without limitation. Your financial statement, regardless of audited status should tell you opening balances, income, disbursements and closing balances. $200K cannot just disappear off a balance sheet.
For reasons not clear to me, a lot of people who live in associations buy into rumors instead of getting to the truth.
Still not me on that buying stuff. Again, yes to the monthly meetings. Close contact with the minority good board members. It is hard to understand. Best way would be to say that the first president had been so for many years. He had a process of handling ballots where there was the usual proxy opportunity and he'd hand those to whom he liked. (yes, verified...by the secretary from that time actually.) So a good bit of the board filled in with favorites as others went off the board.
One time two rooms packed to hear on an issue were asked who wanted to do this thing...not a hand up. Who did not want to proceed. Every hand went up. The guy stood up, steadying himself, glancing over his each shoulder at the older buddies on the board and said well I'm president, what I say goes and I say we're doing this.
Came down through the "generations", so to speak, of some board members and all but one board president. And that board president was only so because the president became ill. That better president, by the way, was skirted around and not consulted on issues. I'd email her or call and ask what is that airboat in the lake. They hadn't told her the weedkill was coming that day, hadn't warned the people as I had requested at another packed meeting a couple of months before...lots of wild animals dead and pets sick and some humans sick.
The disappearance of funds....tongue in cheek. Actually, of course, embezzled. The board did have to say he probably shouldn't be president any more. And when that guy was just an ordinary board member he took his toys and went home.
I questioned this at a meeting not long ago. Other got up and said the same. Why was he never charged? Never fined? Never returned the money? Never served time? They were shocked for a moment, thinking the thinking people might take over. Then one said well, the secretary didn't keep good records so we don't know what happened.
We don't know where the funds went. He still lives in the neighborhood but I found out about the embezzlement after the 2 year period to go after him in our area.
Yes, we get monthly financials but they are doctored here and there. For instance, for many months residents thought the "insurance" was insurance on the building, office machines, a slip and fall or something. Turns out that was listed under office expenses. "Insurance" was actually the health care that was given to the new manager and then it was necessary to give it to the entire staff.
We have had a professional audit. They said there are problems and irregularities and that some smaller non-professional hoa management has this issue and they need to improve. They're good at the old guy who walks slower those times saying they didn't know, they'll do better next time.
This is an area that will put up with those things, an area where the good ol' boy network reigns supreme, which is good when you need it and are part of it....but the branch your not part of, not so good.
Hey, they got away with dredging without the right permit. And for your checklist, yes, saw every bit of it being two houses from the staging area, yes heard it directly from the man from the govt. permitting branch.
What happens is someone wants to do the right thing but then ol' buddy steps in and says he needs to handle it and....well you get the picture.
Do you live in Florida, Cully? The Sun-Sentinel in Ft. Lauderdale had a column about an association that sounds like yours:
The president gives new meaning to shared decisionmaking by making the decisions and then sharing them with the board as done deals.
Board members, for their parts, are reluctant to question the appropriateness of such actions. Some of them just don’t want to make waves, and some know that the response will be verbal abuse by the offending president.
Do you live in Florida, Cully? The Sun-Sentinel in Ft. Lauderdale had a column about an association that sounds like yours:
The president gives new meaning to shared decisionmaking by making the decisions and then sharing them with the board as done deals.
Board members, for their parts, are reluctant to question the appropriateness of such actions. Some of them just don’t want to make waves, and some know that the response will be verbal abuse by the offending president.
That's exactly how he brought the code of conduct to the committee. And all but one of the little ladies (always pick the little ladies) were in awe. The one thinking woman was against it. She had even bought a new Robert's Rules in preparation for their reading the thing as the president had said.
I read the article and got to the response by "kevin". Exactly like us. They just will not give up. It has been suggested that, at least in our area, these are people who just did not quite reach the level of success they had greatly desired in life. They could see it just ahead but never could make it. And never had quite the money they wanted. So now they can control it all.
No, we don't live in Florida. In reading about hoas I was surprised to hear the many stories like this across the country. We had been in many of them in many areas, living mostly where they were the thing to do for safety and protection of the environment. We never had a problem. Issues came up sure, but never anything unsurmountable or unreasonable. Till this one.
As a born and raised South Floridian (Palm Beach County), I grew up reading about condo commando issues and remember laughing uproariously at them with my friends. (Fred's dog was 1.25 pounds overweight and the membership was in an uproar or Ethel was caught speeding at 18 mph in the complex.The horror!) Usually stuff goes to Florida to die, but the condo commando animal somehow escaped the reservation and infiltrated the entire nation. I keep asking myself, "who let those dogs out?" :-)
Anyway, there's certainly no shortage of articles to which you might relate. This one might help middle-aged mom understand how $200,000 goes missing out of HOAs routinely. Since many papers have printed the story and the President of the HOA admits it happened, I think it's safe to assume it's not a rumor, but a true crime story.
The Kevin you mentioned is part of this saga. Luckily, it seems to have turned out well for him and Jeff.
Last edited by seashell55; 04-11-2013 at 12:44 PM..
Reason: Forgot to mention Kevin
Sadly, I can't read all of your posts as it is just too upsetting for me. We have been through that and my husband work hard and long to get rid of a management company who the BBB won't even rate anymore. In doing so, the BOD members with plenty to hide tried every dirty trick to stifle the truth. So, a few years on now and life settling down, I can only remind you of the Serenity Prayer. If you can't change it, or accept their "rules", be good to yourself and move on. We will retire by the end of the year and look forward to selling as I know we left our complex in a far better position than we found it. I read somewhere that the last ones left in an HOA will be the ones stuck with the bills, so for us, we are moving on before that happens.
Sadly, I can't read all of your posts as it is just too upsetting for me. We have been through that and my husband work hard and long to get rid of a management company who the BBB won't even rate anymore. In doing so, the BOD members with plenty to hide tried every dirty trick to stifle the truth. So, a few years on now and life settling down, I can only remind you of the Serenity Prayer. If you can't change it, or accept their "rules", be good to yourself and move on. We will retire by the end of the year and look forward to selling as I know we left our complex in a far better position than we found it. I read somewhere that the last ones left in an HOA will be the ones stuck with the bills, so for us, we are moving on before that happens.
That is so nice. Thank you for the encouraging words. We do see some people doing that now that there has been a few sudden bills. We wonder what they told their buyers. Another thing we see is a little more interest ... or perhaps I should say outrage. People taking notice because it's hitting them in the wallet. There's an election coming up. The hope is that we get wiser people on the board chosen by residents who care more now (and don't toss their ballots and allow the proxy person to vote). We need to break that line, almost like nepotism, that line of like attracting like and getting them on the board by holding the proxies hidden from the fearful little lady secretary. We love our view and neighbors. But the more nature they hack away at and kill the sooner we'll be leaving.
HOAs in CA had such a problem with proxies that the legislature had to change the law! If they hadn't, my husband never would have made it on the BOD. Our group was very hateful and used to go outside to "take a break" before announcing the election outcomes but never allowed anyone else to count votes. I suggest you lobby your legislature for change. (We have Davis-Sterling in CA) Our former BOD used to have a pre-(open)meetings to decide how to vote, but when the law was changed, they then went to sending emails to the members. The legislature also had to strengthen the Open Meeting laws against email discussions except for emergeny. I'm sure it is still going on, but at least we kicked out the former mgt. It really is time to close the book on that chapter as there are and will always be people who don't mind paying outrageous amounts of money to get the grass cut. Some of the older people here act as if this is their personal retirement home and don't want anyone to change anything no matter what.
I hope you run for election and support others who want to change a bad system. Just remember that some people have never had any more in life than to be on the BOD of an HOA, so it is sad that the power is so important to them. Character is what happens when no one is looking.
HOAs in CA had such a problem with proxies that the legislature had to change the law! If they hadn't, my husband never would have made it on the BOD. Our group was very hateful and used to go outside to "take a break" before announcing the election outcomes but never allowed anyone else to count votes. I suggest you lobby your legislature for change. (We have Davis-Sterling in CA) Our former BOD used to have a pre-(open)meetings to decide how to vote, but when the law was changed, they then went to sending emails to the members. The legislature also had to strengthen the Open Meeting laws against email discussions except for emergeny. I'm sure it is still going on, but at least we kicked out the former mgt. It really is time to close the book on that chapter as there are and will always be people who don't mind paying outrageous amounts of money to get the grass cut. Some of the older people here act as if this is their personal retirement home and don't want anyone to change anything no matter what.
I hope you run for election and support others who want to change a bad system. Just remember that some people have never had any more in life than to be on the BOD of an HOA, so it is sad that the power is so important to them. Character is what happens when no one is looking.
Good point about the retirement community. We have the first buildings, condos and a few townhouses. Then the single family. A couple of meetings ago, after years of every now and then a couple of experienced business people brought a plan that would actually lower rates for all. The treasurer actually had a fairly long talk in the meeting with those people, the gist of is being that the fees couldn't be lowered for philosophical reasons (quote) because the people in the condos and townhouses were promised a full staff at all times when they moved in. Nowhere in any documents, covenants, title, etc. If it's true, probably just another sales pitch among many we heard of from the early days when they were having trouble selling units.
Yes, peace is the most important thing. Peace and contentment to you too.
As a born and raised South Floridian (Palm Beach County), I grew up reading about condo commando issues and remember laughing uproariously at them with my friends. (Fred's dog was 1.25 pounds overweight and the membership was in an uproar or Ethel was caught speeding at 18 mph in the complex.The horror!) Usually stuff goes to Florida to die, but the condo commando animal somehow escaped the reservation and infiltrated the entire nation. I keep asking myself, "who let those dogs out?" :-)
Anyway, there's certainly no shortage of articles to which you might relate. This one might help middle-aged mom understand how $200,000 goes missing out of HOAs routinely. Since many papers have printed the story and the President of the HOA admits it happened, I think it's safe to assume it's not a rumor, but a true crime story.
The Kevin you mentioned is part of this saga. Luckily, it seems to have turned out well for him and Jeff.
I'll catch up on these stories. You sound like you could do a comedy act on hoas We lived in one in Florida where we saw the sub-community leader go by our gate back and forth looking at it perplexed. Back and forth. Finally I said hello and he said "you're home. You have your gate closed and you're home". Oh dear, faux pas apparently. He said we don't do that. He went on to tell me in almost a breathless voice like we had thrown his world off kilter that everybody leaves their gate closed when they leave and open when they're home. I told him I left mine close because I had a pretty wreathe I had made on it and wanted it seen. That was beyond his imagination. He was shocked.
Toward the end of our time there, the rule about dogs suddenly changed from two dogs to one. We had two salt and pepper miniature schnauzers who looked alike. So we just walked them separately. That dog got walked a whole lot. We really gave that one dog its exercise.
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We lived in one in Florida where we saw the sub-community leader go by our gate back and forth looking at it perplexed. Back and forth. Finally I said hello and he said "you're home. You have your gate closed and you're home". Oh dear, faux pas apparently. He said we don't do that. He went on to tell me in almost a breathless voice like we had thrown his world off kilter that everybody leaves their gate closed when they leave and open when they're home. I told him I left mine close because I had a pretty wreathe I had made on it and wanted it seen. That was beyond his imagination. He was shocked. 
