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Old 08-28-2013, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
23,962 posts, read 13,496,101 times
Reputation: 11199

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Some good points. Regarding showing the house , I'm guessing a lockbox could be put on and the buyer's agent could show the house. Another option might be to hire one of the many unemployed/underemployed people in this city to do it for a set amount.

That is a good point too about buyers wanting to lowball or get a discount because it's a FSBO..but it looks like one can list on the MLS for a fee. I've seen some for $500 or so. Would most buyers even know it's a FSBO? I doubt it.

Another point is I've seen agent list homes with horrible descriptions and terrible photos. I just don't see them actually earning that money.

Again, I see the point for an agent in a buyer's market...but less so in a sellers.

If I called up the local agents in the area and asked if the had buyers looking in my area ...people that keep on getting outbid on homes... They wouldn't jump at the offer to sell it and make a commission as a buyer's agent?

They'd turn their nose up and say "No No...I don't deal with lowly FSBOs?"??? REALLY?
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Old 08-28-2013, 06:37 PM
 
Location: NY/LA
3,047 posts, read 2,521,361 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post

That is a good point too about buyers wanting to lowball or get a discount because it's a FSBO..but it looks like one can list on the MLS for a fee. I've seen some for $500 or so. Would most buyers even know it's a FSBO? I doubt it.

I think most buyers would be using a buyers agent, and that buyers agent would probably know that it's an FSBO.
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:27 PM
 
16,298 posts, read 17,234,990 times
Reputation: 23199
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
I am wondering about the need for seller's agent in a hot market such as the SoCaL/ Los angeles area.

If people are really getting into bidding wars to buy property , where is the need for a seller's agent?

Sure most buyers will want to use a buyer's agent because it doesn't cost them anything, but 3% in a market like L.A where average homes are over $400,000 seems kind of crazy.

How much time does a listing/seller's agent actually put into marketing a property.

3% of $400,000 is $12,000! Takes most people a lot of money to save up that kind of money from income..so why should it be paid out of the proceeds.

Yes I know agents take pictures and list the property on the MLS..but how much could it cost to hire a photographer to do the pictures and their are sites that let you list the property on the MLS. In this market with buyers "desperate for dealings" perhaps the MLS isn't even necessary.

Even if you had an attorney review the contract that's still not going to add up to $12,000.

I can see the need or want in a slow/down market like 2009-2012 , but things are different now.
Not defending anyone but you do understand realtors don't get paid ANYTHING until the deal s done and they split their 3% with the broker. You DONT HAVE TO USE A REALTOR to sell your house. There is no law stating you must use a realtor for a home sale, you do have to go through a broker.You do know that right? Its called FSBO-FOR SALE BY OWNER and anyone can do it. All you need to do is pay back the loan out of the proceeds of the sale. If you feel like you can handle the listing, and have the ability to meet with potential buyers and have a calm demeanor when they see the house and can handle setting up a broker to do the deal, get the buyer pre qualified, the ability to sell the place all the while dealing with a high level of emotion from you and the buyer, find a buyer who is willing to work straight with the owner most likely without a agent because most agents/realtors will not deal with FSBO ( that's their choice). And taking calls and showings at people's whim.
Most FSBO are overpriced and the sellers think their house is worth it. And just because there is a feeding frenzy for housing, most sellers or buyers prefer not to ever meet. I don't care one way or another. I can keep my emotions in check.
I wouldn't want to be a realtor.

If you are selling and the agent has a crappy listing, with bad pictures you can call and chew him out. You can also call his broker and complain. Jesus just because he is a realtor does not mean you can't say anything. If you not like the ad he placed speak up. Use the mouth god gave you to say you are doing a pis* poor job at selling my house and I wanna know why. You don't have to sit there like a mute. You can tell them you expect better service.
If my realtor was to try to sell a house with some pics and descriptions I see in some ads he/she would cry when we were done having a conversation.

Then again there are enough professional realtors out there that don't need to be to,d anything. A good realtor makes a transaction go smoothly.

Last edited by Electrician4you; 08-28-2013 at 07:38 PM..
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Old 08-28-2013, 07:48 PM
 
Location: northern va
1,546 posts, read 1,976,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Some good points. Regarding showing the house , I'm guessing a lockbox could be put on and the buyer's agent could show the house. Another option might be to hire one of the many unemployed/underemployed people in this city to do it for a set amount.

That is a good point too about buyers wanting to lowball or get a discount because it's a FSBO..but it looks like one can list on the MLS for a fee. I've seen some for $500 or so. Would most buyers even know it's a FSBO? I doubt it.

Another point is I've seen agent list homes with horrible descriptions and terrible photos. I just don't see them actually earning that money.

Again, I see the point for an agent in a buyer's market...but less so in a sellers.

If I called up the local agents in the area and asked if the had buyers looking in my area ...people that keep on getting outbid on homes... They wouldn't jump at the offer to sell it and make a commission as a buyer's agent?

They'd turn their nose up and say "No No...I don't deal with lowly FSBOs?"??? REALLY?
in my area, any limited service arrangement in the MLS (FSBO paying a small fee for the listing placement) is clearly listed. The listing agent states that everything is to be handled with the homeowner.
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Old 08-28-2013, 10:50 PM
 
Location: Los Angeles (Native)
23,962 posts, read 13,496,101 times
Reputation: 11199
Electrician4you, yeah of course you can call and yell and complain about it , but then it's like might as well do it yourself . The average listing is pretty poorly written with mediocre pictures .

Also if something is fsbo , I don't think the buyer would really care if its priced well . Just because you have an agent doesn't mean the price will be higher .

Buyers decide the prices they are willing to pay , not agents..

Short listing on Mls, putting on pictures , MAYBE showing the house a couple times , making some calls with escrow and dealing with other people ..

This is worth $12,000 for a 400k house ... ???

What does that equal per hour?
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:04 PM
 
Location: El Dorado Hills, CA
3,667 posts, read 7,933,097 times
Reputation: 3748
The real question isn't whether you think the listing agent "earns" the amount you pay them (sellers like you will say no, agents will say yes). The question you should ask yourself is...will using an agent increase the net amount I make and reduce my hassle/liability/work by at least the amount of the fee? Most of the time, that answer is yes. If you don't believe that answer works for you, then do it yourself.

And yes, many buyers think that any amount a FSBO saves by not listing should go directly to reduce the price of the house. Just ask them. You stand to gain all the hassle with no extra $$ in the end.
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Old 08-28-2013, 11:27 PM
 
Location: Southwest Washington State
18,582 posts, read 12,296,339 times
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Realtors today are often much more plugged in than in years past. They often operate essentially their own businesses, with their own web sites complete with their listings. Our realtor last year provided us with statistics showing how many 'hits' our listing had received. He also did follow up with every realtor that showed our house.

Our sign had a scannable code on it. He used comps to help figure out price per sq foot, which is a way of quantifying value in the market.

I recognized our last selling agent as tops, because I had experienced previous mediocre performances from realtors. I suspect you could do as well on your own as an average performing realtor. But against a top performer, you would do less well, IMO.
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Old 08-29-2013, 08:47 AM
 
1,694 posts, read 2,247,139 times
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Everyone is different. If you are smart, have the time, are able to keep emotion in check, realistic on your price, knowledgeable about your local market, there is no reason you can't do it yourself...especially if you have done it multiple times and are familiar with the contracts and the legal requirements to close. I would seriously recommend if not demand that all FSBO use a title company or an attorney to close...I don't know what is common in Cali - in Texas, is a title company.

But the idea that buyers think they should share in the FSBO is ludicrous on all levels. The house SHOULD be priced at market value. If the FSBO is willing to work a buyers agent (and ALL FSBO should agree to do so if they want top dollar), then it is the buyers agents job to put their client in check and tell them that he house is valued correctly, you do not get to share in the difference when buying. I am yet to meet an agent who employed another agent to sell their own home.

That said, you just need to be realistic. I sold my house in 1 day...was actually under contract at lunch on day 1 2% above asking price. That would tell you that I was below market, but as of today 3 months after I closed I am still the 3rd most expensive closed house in my area, and I was by no means bigger or nicer than comparable homes....I just happened to have the exact house that people wanted in my area. The house sold itself. The only two homes to sell for more money than mine were over 1,000 sqft bigger and 2 years newer. $/sqft I am still the highest price paid for a house over 2500 sqft. The homes under 1800 sqft are selling for more but that is primarily driven by the lots in our area being outrageously expensive now. There have been a few homes go pending above my price, but none of them have closed b/c none of them appraised.
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Old 08-29-2013, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Florida -
8,154 posts, read 9,898,544 times
Reputation: 14905
The focus here seems to be whether a Realtor should earn 3-percent or $12K for selling a $400K house ... particularly in a hot market where relatively few hours are likely to be involved. While I've sometimes felt the same way on a RE sale that didn't really seem to entail that much time, I realize that I'm paying for a lot of things other than an 'hourly rate.' Further, that same argument could be applied to almost any profession.

Suppose, for example, I hired a waiter $10 at a local restaurant for $10 per hour to sell my house for me. If they were willing, they could probably spend hundreds of hours on my house alone, just figuring-out how to market and advertise the home, much less becoming familiar enough with RE requirements, RE law to earn a license (so they could legally represent me). They would also need to have a good working knowledge of local appraisers, banks, inspector, title companies and a host of others involved in the RE sales process.

They would also have to become familiar with at least a dozen local markets in order to help buyers narrow-down their search to my house. Plus, they would need to have/buy a decent car and be willing to go through as much gas and tires were necessary, to show multiple potential buyers as many houses as they wanted to see. A decent office in the right area (with phones, lights, A/C, computers, secretaries, etc) would also be necessary, ....unless they only worked with buyers/sellers who were comfortable working out of the corner booth at the local Waffle House.

Ultimately, it might take my 'waiter/RE Agent' a year or longer .... BUT, wow! -- I would really get my money's worth, in terms of hours spent! -- and better yet, IF they were unsuccessful ... or if another RE Agent ultimately sold the house, I wouldn't have to pay my 'waiter/agent' anything!

(Obviously there are holes in this illustration, such as exactly what 'role' the Agent and I are filling, but, the concept is pretty straight-forward.)

Last edited by jghorton; 08-29-2013 at 09:31 AM..
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Old 08-29-2013, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Verde Valley
3,954 posts, read 8,568,037 times
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First of all, you're not going to have the activity you would have if it was listed so the chances of getting multiple offers are greatly reduced...therefore you probably won't net any more and most likely will net less. Agents make the appointments off the mls system, which you would not be on AND most importantly, their nhot going to be showing a home that's not listed (meaning there is no contract stating that they're going to get paid - that's part of the listing agents job) otherwise, what's to stop their buyers from going directly to you afterwards and cutting them out?

Previous posters have stated many other things to consider, espcially that buyers who know a place isn't listed want to save the commission that you want to save so it's not really a win for you.

When it comes to the offer, you have no representation on your side, which is sure to cost you - maybe even more than the $12,000.

There are many other issues which I haven't stated.

Food for thought.
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