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To answer your question, it is HIGHLY unethical for the buyer's agent to share with you or your agent, that the buyer would go to 370.
Likewise, it is extremely unethical for your agent to be sharing with ANYONE that you can go as low as 375.
Both pieces of information are private and confidential, and have the likelihood to affect the final outcome of your negotiation.
Both parties could share with their agents what their top and bottom prices might be. But for the agents to share this info with anyone else is very wrong. Most times it is best to keep your high and low parameters private to yourself, and yourself only. RE are not particularly good poker players, so even just knowing that they have other prices in hand makes them disabled at negotiating for your best interests.
If you put it in the realtor's hands with written authorization to negotiate on your behalf with a certain price parameter, I suppose the realtor then can do as they wish with the information, but it my opinion it is an extremely bad negotiating tactic to spill your beans in the first go around.
List at 390. Buyer offers 365. You counter at 385. Buyer counters at 375. You are done, unless you wish to counter at 380 and play around a little bit. To some that $5,000 might not seem like much, but you can do a LOT with that money. More importantly, the negotiation is in your hands each step of the way. Your cards are protected, and you have done the very best to reasonably get your price.
Of course, it doesn't always work out, but by showing your hand in the first go around, you have no chance of achieving your desired price.
Both agents are violating the trust of their clients and should be ashamed of themselves, but hey, what do they care about YOUR money? Not very much is the answer.
I think we aren't getting all of the details. Did the other agent actually say "I know they will go to 370" or did they say "let me see if I can get them to 370" or "maybe they will go to 370". And was this after your agent might have said something along the lines of "I will present this offer, but I don't think it is going to work".
Here is the direct quote:
"Per my discussions with the agent, they plan to come in around $360,000 and have a budget up to $370,000. They do not plan on paying more than $370,000."
Then the offer came in at $360 as expected.
Not trying to over think this, because I don't really mind this as a seller. Selling the house is my first priority. However, I will be a buyer very soon, and I would be very uncomfortable having the seller know this information. I have no idea if the buyers authorized this to be shared or not. It just seemed to go counter to everything I've read about what a real estate agent is supposed to discuss.
To answer your question, it is HIGHLY unethical for the buyer's agent to share with you or your agent, that the buyer would go to 370.
Likewise, it is extremely unethical for your agent to be sharing with ANYONE that you can go as low as 375.
Both pieces of information are private and confidential, and have the likelihood to affect the final outcome of your negotiation.
Both parties could share with their agents what their top and bottom prices might be. But for the agents to share this info with anyone else is very wrong. Most times it is best to keep your high and low parameters private to yourself, and yourself only. RE are not particularly good poker players, so even just knowing that they have other prices in hand makes them disabled at negotiating for your best interests.
If you put it in the realtor's hands with written authorization to negotiate on your behalf with a certain price parameter, I suppose the realtor then can do as they wish with the information, but it my opinion it is an extremely bad negotiating tactic to spill your beans in the first go around.
List at 390. Buyer offers 365. You counter at 385. Buyer counters at 375. You are done, unless you wish to counter at 380 and play around a little bit. To some that $5,000 might not seem like much, but you can do a LOT with that money. More importantly, the negotiation is in your hands each step of the way. Your cards are protected, and you have done the very best to reasonably get your price.
Of course, it doesn't always work out, but by showing your hand in the first go around, you have no chance of achieving your desired price.
Both agents are violating the trust of their clients and should be ashamed of themselves, but hey, what do they care about YOUR money? Not very much is the answer.
Thank you. You were able to articulate much better than I was why this wasn't sitting easy with me.
Someone's fiduciary duties may have been breached, whether or not it is your agent or the buyer remains to be seen. I agree with MAM that you agent may have said, "that's way too low. I am pretty sure my seller won't go for it. Is it worth countering?" I say that all the time. I don't like to waste my sellers time with unreasonable buyers. The other agent may have said "I know they will go to $370" in which case the buyer agent blew it, or she may have said "They might go to $370."
It is also possible your agent said your bottom line was $375 and the buyer agent responded with the "I think they will go to $370 number."
I'd love to tell you that agents don't compromise their clients, but it isn't true. Some agents are just blabbermouths.
If you are worried about it, I would ask a potential buyer agent to show you their % off list that they get for buyers but put that into context with days on the market. A home on the market for 24 hours may go way above asking in multiple offers. Homes that sit on the market a bit should be sold at a discount off list. At least in my area. I'd want a buyer agent that can navigate me through multiple offers and help me win if I want, as well as negotiate hard for more stagnant homes, if that is what I want.
That's why as a buyer I never gave my limits to any agents. I was always saying it really depends on specific house the top we are going to pay for it. Otherwise "my" agent might be willing to get me by assuming the maximum we are going to spend
"Per my discussions with the agent, they plan to come in around $360,000 and have a budget up to $370,000. They do not plan on paying more than $370,000."
Then the offer came in at $360 as expected.
Eh, I was typing as you were writing this. The buyer agent clearly breached their fiduciary duties to their clients.
I think the buyer's agent was stupid for saying, "Oh, they can go to $370." That's between the agent and their client. They have basically made the $360000 offer null and void -- why would you take that if you knew you could get at least another $10,000 more? Stupid, stupid, stupid, and a waste of time. The fact that they came in at $360 instead of $370 would suggest that your agent DIDN'T tell them your bottom line -- otherwise, they would have come in at $370.
Don't assume that YOUR agent revealed your bottom line -- your agent could easily have said, "Well, $360 probably isn't going to be well-received, but I'll present it," which set the other agent to babbling. It's certainly worth a conversation with your agent, if you are uneasy.
"Per my discussions with the agent, they plan to come in around $360,000 and have a budget up to $370,000. They do not plan on paying more than $370,000."
Then the offer came in at $360 as expected.
Not trying to over think this, because I don't really mind this as a seller. Selling the house is my first priority. However, I will be a buyer very soon, and I would be very uncomfortable having the seller know this information. I have no idea if the buyers authorized this to be shared or not. It just seemed to go counter to everything I've read about what a real estate agent is supposed to discuss.
My point was you just don't know all that was said during those "discussions". You are getting the cliff notes.
As a buyer you have options. You can choose not to tell your agent what your "max" is. That way your agent can't give that information away. You can also have a discussion with your agent about how you want negotiations and communications to go. You could just relate this very story to them and let them know what your expectations are going to be for them.
"that's way too low. I am pretty sure my seller won't go for it. Is it worth countering?"
I say that all the time.
Tell me you don't actually say that?
Why would you put yourself in the middle of a negotiation like that? What do you attempt to accomplish? What's in it for you by muddling things when it is a clear process? Not to be mean, but who cares what YOU think?
What, you are softening them up? "I am pretty sure my seller won't go for it"? Blah! That's a high pressure tactic.....NOT.
"Is it worth countering?" No, they made a price and they expect you to bow down and accept it!
Yikes, I am just appalled by the unprofessional behavior exhibited if you really do these things.
Unless you have a principal interest in the outcome, your job is to convey the bids and offers. Many agents have enough trouble writing them up and ensuring that they are delivered without errors. Stick to that and you provide a real service. Inserting your personal opinion does nothing but muck up the works, destroy the strategy, and leave the buyer shaking their head as to whether their information will be communicated clearly, or whether it will come with 'attachments', such as "I don't think you should go for it".
Had a conversation with my listing agent last night that made me a little uneasy. If my house sells, I don't really care, but I'm now concerned what is shared amongst agents as I buy my next home.
Background: Home on market for $390. The lowest I can take is $375k. Anything less than that and I won't be able to cover the note + closing costs. I'd rather rent it out or let it sit vacant if I can't get at least $375k for it. Yesterday, my agent called and said he had an offer. He told me that it was $360k, but that the buyer's agent told him that he could get them up to $370k. My agent was trying to get me off of the $375k price.
My question: I have a single offer from this particular buyer for $360k. That $370 number did not come as a result of negotiating. The offer was presented to me as, it's $360k, but don't worry because we're going to get it up to $370k. Is it ethical for the buyer's agent to be sharing with my agent how high up they can get their clients? If I rejected the offer or countered, then I could see having that conversation. Likewise, I'm sure that my agent is sharing that $375k is my rock bottom, which if it gets the deal done, fine. But is that normal?
Why I'm concerned about this isn't so much my situation. If we can all get together and come up with something like $372,500, I'll sell and be done with it. As a seller, it helps me to know right off the bat how much they are willing to come up. But if I'm a buyer, don't I have a certain expectation of privacy from my realtor? I don't like the idea of if I've put an offer in on a house, that the two agents are working behind the scenes to get the price up higher. Let the seller come back and tell me that it is too low, and I can inch towards my max price.
Just want to understand what is reasonable to expect when you are discussing budget and target price with your realtor, as I will be looking to purchase a home again in the summer.
It is unethical, immoral and dishonorable to act outside of the parameters set forth in a signed contract. It is also illegal to act outside of the fiduciary relationship set forth.
There are so many thousands of agents in Northern Va with many different ideas of their own about what is okay to do, bolstered by any experiences they may have had with their behavior being acceptable. Makes the good ones look bad.
That said, I don't know if you truly know what was in the buyer's contract. Perhaps the agent is just that and has no contractual or fiduciary relationship with the buyer. Perhaps she ignored Va real estate law to have the buyer either sign such an agreement or at least sign of waiver of such.
On the other hand, it is not at all uncommon in big cities to write a contract with increase in what one will pay up to a point named. Say, $500,000 but increases up to $540,000. The realtor is not really supposed to mention this until there is some back and forth, some negotiating. So maybe they just skipped to the chase on that one.
And it may be there was some talk between agents once the offer was revealed that "oh, sorry, he needs at least $... so there's no point unless your buyer can come up." And the buyer's agent said, "yeah, he can do that."
But you might want to make it clearer now with your agent just how much you want revealed and how much you don't. You don't want revealed that you're desperate and leaving soon or there's a sickness or there's looming foreclosure because offers can then get lower.
And when you buy you want to check out the buyer's agreement closely and also speak with the agent or realtor about just what they understand from the agreement and what expectations you will have.
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