Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 01-08-2014, 10:58 AM
 
Location: Florida -
10,213 posts, read 14,748,412 times
Reputation: 21845

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePRU View Post
Accurate and square footage are two difficult things to pair up. There's a lot of variation amongst different trades and even people in the same trade in terms of what is an appropriate method of measure square footage. If there can be no one generally accepted practice for measuring then it's impossible to have anything termed accurate square footage.

JGH: True, when talking about 'incidental differences' of perhaps 50 sq ft. However, major, misleading differences often occur when sellers include things like porches, balconies, work shops not under air and garages in their overall sq. footage measurements

If you add up the space inside every room 99% of the time you'll get a different square footage total than what you're provided. That's not a method many people use to generate total living area.

JGH: The point was not so much about getting an 'accurate' sq. footage measurement, but, about making a relative comparison between a larger appearing 'empty' home and one's residence with which they are familiar and which includes their own furniture.

If you buy a house and it's marketed as 3,000 sq ft when you go to sell it (so long as you haven't added on) then it's still 3,000 sq ft. Living area is not going to just get up and walk away while you're living in the house.

JGH: But, if one 'buys' a 3000 sq ft home, that actually turns-out to be closer to 2700 sq. ft, can they ethically then resell the home as 3000 sq ft?
.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 01-08-2014, 12:56 PM
 
Location: Needham, MA
8,525 posts, read 13,910,379 times
Reputation: 7908
Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
JGH: True, when talking about 'incidental differences' of perhaps 50 sq ft. However, major, misleading differences often occur when sellers include things like porches, balconies, work shops not under air and garages in their overall sq. footage measurements
This is my point though . . . being that there is no single commonly accepted method for measuring square footage who's to say it's wrong or misleading to include an enclosed porch for example in the square footage? If there is no set of rules to play by then there is no "wrong" if you feel someone is misleading you in a situation such as this then it's because of your own preconceived notions and not because of any rules. A lot of people, for example, are shocked to find out that gross living area figures often include the space inside the walls. Many people feel this is wrong and misleading even though it's the method architects and builders use to measure GLA.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
JGH: The point was not so much about getting an 'accurate' sq. footage measurement, but, about making a relative comparison between a larger appearing 'empty' home and one's residence with which they are familiar and which includes their own furniture.
That makes more sense. However, I find how big a space feels has a lot to do with its layout. Two rooms with the same square footage can feel quite different in size if for example one is perfectly square or rectangular and the other is an odd shape or "L" shaped.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
JGH: But, if one 'buys' a 3000 sq ft home, that actually turns-out to be closer to 2700 sq. ft, can they ethically then resell the home as 3000 sq ft?
Again, with so many different ways of measuring square footage how is one to determine that the house is not 3K square feet? In my experience when there's a dispute over GLA, 99.9999% of the time it's because two people are measuring the house differently and not that suddenly there is a room missing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2014, 06:10 PM
 
1 posts, read 10,469 times
Reputation: 10
Default New Construction discrepancies in Sq Ft

I don't want to beat a dead horse by asking these questions over and over again but I haven't found much on new construction.

I contracted to build a home from the ground up, picked the plan of a home with a certain sq ft (3120 sq ft of living space, as per the contract). The home is not complete and I have not taken ownership yet. I did however notice that the county assessor came out and measured the home and it was listed as having 2845 sq ft.

I called the assessor to verify how they measured and they stated they measure from the outside, meaning that it is even smaller on the inside. To be sure I went an measured the house on the inside and sure enough I got 2818 on the inside. This equals to over $28,000 dollars in a price difference.

If I contracted to build a home that was a certain square foot and I am not getting that does the builder have to lower the price? If they don't lower the price will I get back all of my earnest money and 10% down on upgrades?

At a loss!!!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-21-2014, 07:55 PM
 
2,737 posts, read 5,431,443 times
Reputation: 2305
The posters who said there are multiple ways to calculate square footage are correct. For example, if you have a two story living room, some say you should count the floor space only once, while others double it.

We bought a house designed and lived in by an architect. You would think if there were one right answer, he would have it, wouldn't you? He calculated it to be about 2600 square ft IIRC; the county at the time counted about 2400. Now the current owner has somehow convinced the county that it's about 2000, which is ludicrous, though I'm sure it meant a lower property tax bill. So I get why he wanted it lowered, but I don't get how he got the county to agree to it after all those years.

To the OP, unless you are in an area of new tract homes, the other differences in the houses probably more than offset the small square footage difference you are seeing.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-22-2014, 10:55 PM
 
Location: South Texas
480 posts, read 1,178,636 times
Reputation: 613
The only two activities that actually measure a home as part of their professional practice are assessors and appraisers. Assessors measure for tax purposes and appraiser for valuation purposes (these are not the same thing!!).

As was stated a few times previously in this thread, there is no ONE industry standard for measuring a home. However, MOST use a standard developed and adopted in 1996 by the American National Standards Institute (ANSI). The current version of this standard is Z765-2003 ANSI Standard.

Within this ANSI standard is two very important concept: finished square footage and gross living area. Though both are expressed as "square footage", they are NOT the same thing and these terms aren't interchangeable.

Assessors (think County Assessors) may not actually visit your home to gather their data to determine your home's square footage. Some use building plans, approved building permits, or even aerial photography to determine the square footage of your home. They could easily miss the finished square footage over your garage or add in a screened in porch as finished square footage when it should not be included. This is why county tax records are incorrect so frequently.

Appraisers actually do visit the property they are appraising, measure the home, and, applying the ANSI standard, determine the Gross Living Area (GLA).

FROGS, basements, garage conversions, and enclosed patios are always big topics when people are discussing differences in living area. Here is where some of the major differences occur between the Assessor's data and the appraiser's measurements (per general ANSI standards). There are exceptions to each of these comments and only a person with market expertise in your specific locale can tell you whether these exceptions may apply to your situation.

1. Finished room over garage (FROG) -- If you have to walk through your garage (an unheated/uncooled space) to get to the FROG, the square footage of the FROG doesn't count!

2. If you can get to the FROG from inside the house (you don't have to go through your garage), the FROG must at least have a permanent heat source or be connected to your home's heat system to count as part of the GLA.

3. Basements (or any floor that is even partially below ground) is not part of GLA. (Not that is doesn't add to the value of the home, of course.) Most realtors, etc., will call out the basement as a separate item to ensure people know the size of the basement. Where it get confusing is when they add the basement size to the rest of the home's gross living area -- that is very misleading to home buyers.

4. Enclosed garages (aka garage conversions) must have the garage doors totally removed, the walls finished to the construction quality of the rest of the house, and must have a permanent heat sources (just like the FROG above) to be added to gross living area.

5. Enclosed patios are actually pretty simple. They must have walls (not just screens) and must have a permanent heat source. That portable air conditioner/heater you put into the outside wall is NOT permanent! The best way to show the area is actually part of the home's gross living area is to totally remove the door that once upon a time took you to the now-enclosed patio.

Again, FROGS, basements, garage conversions, and enclosed patios are always big topics when people are discussing differences in living area. Your market areas may treat these situations differently.

I hope this explanation helps to some degree.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-23-2014, 09:01 PM
 
Location: NJ
17,574 posts, read 45,989,151 times
Reputation: 16271
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcp528 View Post
I don't know if I have any recourse or if its a big deal but I purchased a home in Florida and the heated square footage is off by 86 sq ft. The lanai was included in that figure of heated space. The title company's appraiser also included the sq footage w/lanai in his report. There is a difference of approx $8,000 more, I paid for, that is not heated space.

Is there anything I can do or should I just let it be.
You weren't at the deli buying some turkey. Did you seriously base your offer from the exact square footage?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2014, 10:51 AM
 
174 posts, read 407,059 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
Did you seriously base your offer from the exact square footage?

I saw a home that had a slight less amount of square footage (based on mls listing) than my home and that home seemed bigger. Which made me research why my house, stated that it was larger, appeared not as large. That is when I figured out that the lanai was included in the AC sq ftg. As compared to the other house, which did not include the lanai in the AC sq ftg.

My offer was based on sq ftg, condition of home, appliances included, how old things were, surrounding area, etc.

I would think that the square ftg would be off a little, but the size of the lanai could have been another room 12x8 under AC.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2014, 11:03 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,574 posts, read 45,989,151 times
Reputation: 16271
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcp528 View Post
I saw a home that had a slight less amount of square footage (based on mls listing) than my home and that home seemed bigger. Which made me research why my house, stated that it was larger, appeared not as large. That is when I figured out that the lanai was included in the AC sq ftg. As compared to the other house, which did not include the lanai in the AC sq ftg.

My offer was based on sq ftg, condition of home, appliances included, how old things were, surrounding area, etc.

I would think that the square ftg would be off a little, but the size of the lanai could have been another room 12x8 under AC.
So if you would have offered 8K less because of the square footage and the seller's would not have accpeted that would you have walked away?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2014, 11:20 AM
 
174 posts, read 407,059 times
Reputation: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by manderly6 View Post
So if you would have offered 8K less because of the square footage and the seller's would not have accpeted that would you have walked away?

Probably, since some other things in the house need to be updated.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 01-24-2014, 11:50 AM
 
Location: NJ
17,574 posts, read 45,989,151 times
Reputation: 16271
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcp528 View Post
Probably, since some other things in the house need to be updated.
You say "probably". Why not definitely?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top