Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-14-2014, 07:27 PM
 
Location: South Texas
4,248 posts, read 4,162,135 times
Reputation: 6051

Advertisements

Don't buy a house that's not up to code. You'll never get a mortgage, or a homeowner's insurance policy.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-14-2014, 07:47 PM
 
Location: West End-Hartford
625 posts, read 2,050,483 times
Reputation: 377
Is knob and tube insured differently in different parts of the country? I sell a lot of older homes with k&t (and live in one myself). Insurers typically require that the accessible k&t in the attic and basement be removed and replaced prior to closing (or within 30 days after closing if the buyer agrees to make the fix). Usually what is left in the interior walls is considered okay. I have never had a lender say anything about k&t, it is usually the insurer.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2014, 08:56 PM
 
10,181 posts, read 10,257,364 times
Reputation: 9252
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmyBergquist View Post
Is knob and tube insured differently in different parts of the country? I sell a lot of older homes with k&t (and live in one myself). Insurers typically require that the accessible k&t in the attic and basement be removed and replaced prior to closing (or within 30 days after closing if the buyer agrees to make the fix). Usually what is left in the interior walls is considered okay. I have never had a lender say anything about k&t, it is usually the insurer.
The two houses that I've sold with K&T wiring came to negotiations between us (sellers) and buyers AFTER they had a home inspection and the inspector told them how horrible K&T is.

Last house I sold with K&T was about 9 years ago. 3 bedroom cape between 1100 and 1200 square feet. The estimates the buyer received from electricians were in the $5500-$6500 range to replace. We agreed on $6000 and put that money in an escrow account for them.

They closed (had a loan) without an issue - while the house still had K&T.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2014, 09:34 PM
 
Location: Riverside Ca
22,146 posts, read 33,530,989 times
Reputation: 35437
Quote:
Originally Posted by OuttatheRain View Post
Why does the remaining knob and tube need replacing? Is it frayed or in bad condition? Sparking? Evidence of old fire? Or is it just that it's an old system?

We have some knob and tube left in our 1920 farmhouse, and were told it does NOT need to be replaced unless it's causing an issue.

Almost 100 years old and that knob and tube wiring has not caused a single problem in all of these years!


The issue isn't the K/T wiring. Most houses today run enough electricity that it can overwhelm what the K/T can supply. One of my rentals had KT wiring. Upgraded the panel and the wiring. It's really not that hard to do. I was lucky it was a single story and had attic access everywhere.

If you have crawl space and/or attic space it can be done with minimal damage. If its a two story forget it. ( I assumed it was a two story house) Ive replaced kt wiring. Most people don't understand it or want it. Also you may need to pull permits and that will kick in the requirement to bring electrical to code. The code is usually followed using NEC but there could also be some state codes you might need to follow.

Biggest issues with kt wiring

There is no ground
Switching the hot conductor (I think its called Carter system places electrical loads across the common terminals of a three-way switch pair). The hot switching is not confined to the hot conductor. Even I get confused sometimes when I see KT wiring. I step back and really trace it out.
Allowed use of in-line splices in walls without a junction box. But back then they twisted the wires together for a mechanical bond and then soldered rubber taped and friction taped the junction.

Running new wiring can be dangerous for the installer. You would need to tell them that there is knob tube wiring in the house.


It doesn't take much to start a fire. Electrical fires are one of the most common fires in the US

Last edited by Electrician4you; 06-14-2014 at 09:54 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-14-2014, 11:29 PM
 
Location: Tucson for awhile longer
8,869 posts, read 16,317,950 times
Reputation: 29240
Quote:
Originally Posted by Slowpoke_TX View Post
Don't buy a house that's not up to code. You'll never get a mortgage, or a homeowner's insurance policy.
I've bought and sold two houses in Western Pennsylvania, where the OP is, and my mother also sold hers recently. Many issues in all these houses were not up to code and the houses not only sold but we had insurance and the new owners got insurance. In old cities, houses with K/T aren't seen as the freak out they are in places west of the Mississippi.

Both my PA houses had K/T. I left one alone (which was mortgaged through a city program). In the second house (which I paid cash for) I was adding a new kitchen, a home office, and whole house air, so I had to redo the electrical. It was a HUGE mess because it was a two-story 3-bedroom Craftsman built in 1927. The electrician had to hire a CHILD to pull wires in the crawl spaces. (I don't even want to know if that's legal.) The electrician was very experienced, though, and got the job done so it passed Duquesne Light's inspection with flying colors and it only cost me $5,000 nine years ago. (As people have pointed out, costs for things like that in Western PA can be much less expensive than they are in other cities. You can often get a union craftsman to do the work as a freelance job.)

It WAS, however, a huge mess. The lath and plaster walls were basically destroyed in some places and had to be replaced with drywall. That enabled me to improve the insulation, though, so probably a blessing in disguise, running the air for less.

All that said, I would hold out for the seller coughing up at least half of whatever a qualified estimator says this will cost in your neighborhood. The sellers know it's a problem and they're going to have a tough time getting another buyer, so I can't imagine they won't negotiate. (Personally, I would walk if they refuse to budge.)

But what I want to know is: why are you paying a Realtor if she is incapable of negotiating this for you? Does she work for an agency? If so, call her boss and tell them her/him you're not getting the support you need and you expect the company to assign someone to assist her. I did that once and I got what I needed in a day. She is not qualified for this job if she can't advise you intelligently on this. It's a very common issue in your area. She should have been prepared for it the minute she saw the lack of info on the disclosure statement.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-15-2014, 05:53 AM
 
466 posts, read 643,854 times
Reputation: 688
I would walk away. In New England, we're used to having to deal with renovation issues because of the constraints of the market, but you should have more flexibility in PA. Based on the numbers you have provided you are overpaying, and even if the sellers cover the upgrade costs, why do you want to undertake such a huge project?

Your agent doesn't seem to be doing their job well. Try to find a new one and keep looking for another house.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-16-2014, 01:51 PM
 
Location: East TN
11,128 posts, read 9,756,639 times
Reputation: 40539
Walk away from this deal. Find another house. WAY too many issues. Leave this one to an experienced re-habber.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2014, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Little Pond Farm
559 posts, read 1,356,300 times
Reputation: 507
Nothing for nothing but when you look at older homes, especially that old, you know you are going to have to do upgrading unless its already been done and your realtor should have told you this before you made an offer. Regardless there is a chance that you will be renovating the home anyway so look at the upgraded electric as a investment for when you go to sell.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-17-2014, 08:29 AM
 
4,565 posts, read 10,655,631 times
Reputation: 6730
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ninotchka P View Post
Your agent doesn't seem to be doing their job well. Try to find a new one and keep looking for another house.
Their agents job is to help them purchase a house. What crazy house they pick has nothing to do with the agent.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:29 PM.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top