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Old 10-18-2014, 09:16 AM
 
17 posts, read 24,023 times
Reputation: 10

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Quote:
Originally Posted by 399083453 View Post
I feel your pain, and I know your venting, but blaming everyone and saying your going to sue everyone is not the right scenario right now. I'm sure mistakes have been made along the way by all types of people, but letting this go on for 20 years was certainly your parents fault. This should have been dealt with 20 years ago. They simply gave up looking into this, and paid the price.

Before you keep blaming people and threatening to sue everyone, you need to find out what really happened. Legally..... on paper..... what happened, not rumors. So why have you not done this yet? Find your state's deed registry..... look up your parents name.... follow the deeds. Its free. There is no excuse for not doing this.

Start with following the deeds that were filed. Its likely they are online and free. I look at deeds all the time online. It should only take 5 minutes to find your parents deed and another hour or so to follow it to today.
I’m not sure I agree with blaming my parents for this situation. First, the five individuals who committed the crime have been identified. No refuting this, it was said and done. These folks were nowhere to be found and didn’t want to come forward then. Why? Common sense tells me: guilt. Keep in mind that they also ran with rent money.

Second, for all my parents knew, the attorney knew what he was doing. He was the one with the law degree and he was the one that dragged the case on for years. Ethically, couldn’t he have stopped and walked away years ago if he knew nothing could be done back then? Instead, he seemed to mislead my parents into thinking that they’d eventually get their money back…and took thousands more from them over the years with no sight of success.

Justice is two decades overdue…if now’s not the right time to sue (again, if it’s even possible), then when will it ever be? Please share your logic.

My excuse for not having what you’re asking: documents are not online. Respectfully, I ask you to please bring your ego and assumptions about easily finding certified information in minutes. I searched for hours the other night but the documented records don't seem to go that far back for the county the homes were in. I also have a job and a family…the current state in which I live in is far from AZ and can’t be planned in a snap. As I’ve also said in my previous posts, it will take some time to gather information as I’m all new to this. Rest assured that most of the information in my previous posts, despite my emotions, is fact. The shared information that might fall under the “rumors” category still needs to be confirmed by the documents I’m waiting for (from out of country).

I can tell you that of the information I was able to uncover pertaining to the history of ownership (of all but one of these homes) looked something like this (keep in mind that this isn't certified information, but worth sharing nonetheless):

John Doe – owned in 1995
My parents – owned in 1996
John Doe – owned in 1997

***The actual person wasn't named John Doe and the years above aren’t the actual years of ownership, just using these stats as an example. I’ll let this example speak for itself. Some of the notarized deeds I have on hand don't line up with the information (mainly dates) I was able to find online...so I'm not sure what to make of these online searches.

To those more familiar with real estate and MLS searches, would an MLS search by a local realtor show more accurate and credible records that would help confirm what I have so far? (Can these searches list information about sale history, listing agent, buyer, seller, etc of a property?) Wondering if I can meet with a local realtor (non-AZ realtor) to see if he/she can give me this info.

Last edited by Terris21; 10-18-2014 at 09:28 AM..
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Old 10-18-2014, 09:25 AM
 
17 posts, read 24,023 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by cully View Post
That is one reason a buyer buys title insurance....in case the previous sale was fraudulent. In order to give the insurance the title company should check the chain of title as carefully as possible...but that's not always possible when there are con artists involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultrarunner View Post
Years ago I had a problem on a home I bought... called the Title company who seemed could not have cared less... the response was to forward any legal papers should they come my way.

I called a friend in another part of the State who was a partner/owner of a Title Company and he made a call on my behalf... the difference was night and day... they went from indifference to not being able to do enough... ended up having the deed corrected and recorded.

My point is sometimes a person gets nowhere without saying the right buzz words and phrases... that was all my friend did and it was to a senior partner and not a Title Officer who I had contacted.
Thanks for your posts cully and Ultrarunner. I’m finding more and more that it won’t be just the attorney that I'll need to get my answers. Will try my best to consult the best of the best in the business for each query as they unravel.

As this is my first encounter proceeding with an attorney, I’m doing some research on the right attorneys to inquire with. There are many attorneys on my current list and don’t know how to narrow them down. Does anyone have any tips for narrowing the list down to a few good ones to meet with? Does a credible site where public reviews and credentials of an attorney are displayed exist?
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Old 10-18-2014, 11:29 AM
 
8,540 posts, read 12,289,648 times
Reputation: 16442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terris21 View Post
My parents have copies of notarized deeds on hand, but I haven’t looked into (or identified) the “history” of deeds at the registry (didn’t know one even exists!).
Have you seen these Deeds? Do they have evidence on them of being recorded? (such as tax stamps or notations of where they can be found--e.g. Liber & Page numbers or something similar)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terris21 View Post
Haven't looked into the titles yet, but is it possible for a deed to be in their names with the title listing someone else (at the same time)?
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "title" listing someone else. If a Deed conveying title has been properly recorded at the County Recorder's Office, that will indicate the "owner of record". Sometimes tax assessment records (maintained by the Assessor's office) are different if they have not been updated to show the change in ownership. In my area, I usually check the assessment records because it is easier to check. That is not a guarantee, however, that the party to whom the tax bill is sent is actually the owner (plus some tax bills are sent to mortgage holders).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Terris21 View Post
I can tell you that of the information I was able to uncover pertaining to the history of ownership (of all but one of these homes) looked something like this (keep in mind that this isn't certified information, but worth sharing nonetheless):

John Doe – owned in 1995
My parents – owned in 1996
John Doe – owned in 1997

***The actual person wasn't named John Doe and the years above aren’t the actual years of ownership, just using these stats as an example. I’ll let this example speak for itself. Some of the notarized deeds I have on hand don't line up with the information (mainly dates) I was able to find online...so I'm not sure what to make of these online searches.
Are you saying that one party conveyed the property to your parents...and then the same party regained title to the property in a subsequent year? If you haven't seen what is recorded at the County Recorder's Office, what is your source of information to make that determination? If the same party sold a property to your parents, and then regained "title" in a subsequent year, I'm just wondering if the Deeds conveying title to your parents were ever recorded. So many questions...

I will send you a private message.
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Old 10-20-2014, 09:05 PM
 
15,633 posts, read 26,138,905 times
Reputation: 30912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terris21 View Post
I’m not sure I agree with blaming my parents for this situation. First, the five individuals who committed the crime have been identified. No refuting this, it was said and done. These folks were nowhere to be found and didn’t want to come forward then. Why? Common sense tells me: guilt. Keep in mind that they also ran with rent money.

Second, for all my parents knew, the attorney knew what he was doing. He was the one with the law degree and he was the one that dragged the case on for years. Ethically, couldn’t he have stopped and walked away years ago if he knew nothing could be done back then? Instead, he seemed to mislead my parents into thinking that they’d eventually get their money back…and took thousands more from them over the years with no sight of success.

Justice is two decades overdue…if now’s not the right time to sue (again, if it’s even possible), then when will it ever be? Please share your logic.

My excuse for not having what you’re asking: documents are not online. Respectfully, I ask you to please bring your ego and assumptions about easily finding certified information in minutes. I searched for hours the other night but the documented records don't seem to go that far back for the county the homes were in. I also have a job and a family…the current state in which I live in is far from AZ and can’t be planned in a snap. As I’ve also said in my previous posts, it will take some time to gather information as I’m all new to this. Rest assured that most of the information in my previous posts, despite my emotions, is fact. The shared information that might fall under the “rumors” category still needs to be confirmed by the documents I’m waiting for (from out of country).

I can tell you that of the information I was able to uncover pertaining to the history of ownership (of all but one of these homes) looked something like this (keep in mind that this isn't certified information, but worth sharing nonetheless):

John Doe – owned in 1995
My parents – owned in 1996
John Doe – owned in 1997

***The actual person wasn't named John Doe and the years above aren’t the actual years of ownership, just using these stats as an example. I’ll let this example speak for itself. Some of the notarized deeds I have on hand don't line up with the information (mainly dates) I was able to find online...so I'm not sure what to make of these online searches.

To those more familiar with real estate and MLS searches, would an MLS search by a local realtor show more accurate and credible records that would help confirm what I have so far? (Can these searches list information about sale history, listing agent, buyer, seller, etc of a property?) Wondering if I can meet with a local realtor (non-AZ realtor) to see if he/she can give me this info.
Find out the statutes of limitations. It might be too long ago to do anything about. And your reparations won't be as great as you think. And no matter what they did, if the SOL has passed, nothing will happen to them. No jail time, nothing...
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:15 AM
 
17 posts, read 24,023 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmichigan View Post
Have you seen these Deeds? Do they have evidence on them of being recorded? (such as tax stamps or notations of where they can be found--e.g. Liber & Page numbers or something similar)
After closer inspection (just had the time to do so last night), it’s actually only a series of deeds that shows ownership for only one of the properties. Yes, stamps and notations can be found on each of them.

For the deed that finalized the transaction from my parents to the next owner on this particular property, signatures are clearly forged. Aside from this, I also noticed that one part of this particular document looked different from the rest of the deeds…whereas the rest of the documents show individuals present at the signing are typed in in previous documents, my parents’ names are written in with a pen at the transaction. I’m not sure if it has an significance as to whether or not this could have been a glaring issue then.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmichigan View Post
I'm not sure I understand what you mean by "title" listing someone else. If a Deed conveying title has been properly recorded at the County Recorder's Office, that will indicate the "owner of record". Sometimes tax assessment records (maintained by the Assessor's office) are different if they have not been updated to show the change in ownership. In my area, I usually check the assessment records because it is easier to check. That is not a guarantee, however, that the party to whom the tax bill is sent is actually the owner (plus some tax bills are sent to mortgage holders).
I was under the impression that the title and a deed are two different things (and therefore recorded by two different entities). My thought was maybe the deed went on to be recorded as one name and the title another name by mistake?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmichigan View Post
Are you saying that one party conveyed the property to your parents...and then the same party regained title to the property in a subsequent year? If you haven't seen what is recorded at the County Recorder's Office, what is your source of information to make that determination? If the same party sold a property to your parents, and then regained "title" in a subsequent year, I'm just wondering if the Deeds conveying title to your parents were ever recorded. So many questions...
Yes! When I posted this the other day, it was through a link I found on google. Still looking through my browser history to see if I can find the link. Yesterday, I was given access to an unpublished database (deeds not uploaded) that the Recorder’s Office sent me by e-mail. Looking into this database also confirmed my earlier findings. The database also confirms that my parents deeds were in fact recorded.

PM will be sent shortly.
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Old 10-21-2014, 09:21 AM
 
17 posts, read 24,023 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tallysmom View Post
Find out the statutes of limitations. It might be too long ago to do anything about. And your reparations won't be as great as you think. And no matter what they did, if the SOL has passed, nothing will happen to them. No jail time, nothing...
I understand. I’m just following up the work that the previous attorney allegedly did…I sort of have my doubts that the attorney knew what he was doing, or did all that he could. I recently found out that a couple of these homes were in irrevocable trusts…which I’m hoping might give us a legal lead.

Overall, my parents have been living here paycheck to paycheck since this occurred…Their time and money were poured into all of these properties (aside from purchase price, they spent thousands on renovation)...it was all gone in the blink of an eye. Today they still have sleepless nights where they wonder what went wrong and why the “attorney’s promise” did not come forward. The very least I could do is to help get some answers for them…even if nothing can be done today.
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Old 10-21-2014, 11:34 AM
 
15,633 posts, read 26,138,905 times
Reputation: 30912
Quote:
Originally Posted by Terris21 View Post
I understand. I’m just following up the work that the previous attorney allegedly did…I sort of have my doubts that the attorney knew what he was doing, or did all that he could. I recently found out that a couple of these homes were in irrevocable trusts…which I’m hoping might give us a legal lead.

Overall, my parents have been living here paycheck to paycheck since this occurred…Their time and money were poured into all of these properties (aside from purchase price, they spent thousands on renovation)...it was all gone in the blink of an eye. Today they still have sleepless nights where they wonder what went wrong and why the “attorney’s promise” did not come forward. The very least I could do is to help get some answers for them…even if nothing can be done today.
I feel for you -- I have some friends who had their property stolen from them. Friend called me and told me his broker had given them money in advance of their refinance.

Alarm bells went off in my head and I started questioning him and telling him this isn't how that works, that the broker was pulling something, but his attitude was what do you know?

I don't know -- maybe six years working in banking and seeing the loan process, refi'ing my own home a couple of times, knowing several loan brokers and working in home loans.......

Yeah -- after getting 10K from the broker, the next official document they got was an eviction notice. No -- I didn't say I told you so. After getting the whole story (as far as I know -- there could be more) losing it was maybe the best thing that happened.

And soon after that -- there were several deed scams where houses were taken from the rightful owners. If I remember correctly, new deeds were drawn up and recorded, and ownership was changed all legally. So the now ex owners had notes on property they no longer owned, the banks had no collateral anymore and wanted ALL their money NOW, and the owners were still legally on the hook. It was a big mess.

I'm sure the government has now made it harder, but people getting scammed out of their homes isn't always a case of someone not being knowledgeable.
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Old 10-21-2014, 02:58 PM
 
Location: NC
6,032 posts, read 9,175,082 times
Reputation: 6378
So your folks only owned the homes for a year?

Could this have been some sort of straw buyer type scam?
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:50 PM
 
Location: The Mitten.
2,520 posts, read 3,067,505 times
Reputation: 8952
I'm hoping Terris21 will keep us updated as he uncovers the mystery.....
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Old 11-19-2014, 09:57 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,690,608 times
Reputation: 22085
Quote:
I’m wondering if we can sue the attorney for malpractice…likely our next move if nothing can move forward with the homes.
Sue them for doing what? If someone pulled an illegal act, and left the country at the time, what would you expect the attorney to do?
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