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Old 11-10-2014, 06:36 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
330 posts, read 1,082,721 times
Reputation: 258

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I just sold my house that needed flood insurance. We were up to $3600/yr and read all about the increases coming. We decided to get out while we could still get a decent price for our house. You wont catch me buying another house in a flood zone. Unless I hit the lottery or something!
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Old 11-11-2014, 06:54 AM
 
4,538 posts, read 6,419,982 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by sware2cod View Post
My interpretation of the 25% rule for non-primary is it's a 4 year incremental period for non-primary - you pay 25% of the full-rate the 1st year with 25% of the full rate added each year. So year 1 it's 25% of full-rate, year 2 it's 50% of full rate, year 3 it's 75% of full rate and year 4 it's the non-subsidized full rate.

Is there any official documentation from FEMA that indicates 25% of the current (lower) rate or is it 25% of the new(higher) rate? I can't find anything now but thought I read something before that indicated it's 25% of the NEW(higher) rate.

When BW was revised it no longer goes to full risk rate for new owner, instead it rises 25% a year off old rate.

Compounding moves very very very fast at 25% even if you start at 1k a year.
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Old 11-11-2014, 06:59 AM
 
4,538 posts, read 6,419,982 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by ToyYot View Post
This.

I backed of an investment house when I found out the house was in a 100yr flood plain. Wasn't on the disclosure! In Houston any renovation worth more than 50% of the city value for taxation purposes OF THE STRUCTURE ONLY (normally much, much lower than the market value of the property) will not get permitted unless the foundation is raised above a base elevation.

Also, any additions must have the new foundation above the base elevation

So, we would have been capped at $40k reno work on that property or tear it down.

That is a FEMA thing not a Houston thing. FEMA if you expand 50% or greater the square footage of a pre-firm grandfathered house with subsidized rates it is considered new construction.

Pre-firm houses are not rated with an Elevation Certificate. My primary house has a basement in a flood zone. If I expand more than 50% not only do I have to raise I have to fill in basement. If I dont my insurance will fly through roof. For added most assessors tax new construction higher and greater than 50% they tax you like a new home.

My house is only 1600 square feet, which means the largest it can ever get is 799 square feet larger.
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Old 01-16-2015, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Florida
7 posts, read 13,291 times
Reputation: 10
I agree with the views of many of the posters here, especially of being weary of properties in areas of high flood risk. The problem is that flood hazard identification and flood insurance legislation keeps changing. For example, how do we know how FEMA's maps will look in the future? How we understand flood prone areas keeps changing due to better data, land development, or systemic changes such as climate change and sea level rise. A house that it is outside of the FEMA floodplain now could very well be inside the floodplain in the near future due to these factors. Plus the maps are not infallible. They have lots of uncertainties and sometimes even human errors. See this case in Texas where a property owner who wanted to seriously live outside of the floodplain, bought a property solely based on the effective FEMA maps, only to find his new home mapped into the floodplain after some years:

FEMA fixes flood map mistake | abc13.com

and this case in Florida where residents of Wellington found most of their properties were in the new floodplain, causing uproar which resulted in them getting mapped out of the floodplain again (did not seem like the final outcome was correct, either....there’s got to be at least some flooding risk in this low lying area):

Wellington not in high-risk flood zone | www.mypalmbeachpost.com

The point is, when looking for real estate opportunities outside of the FEMA high risk zones, how can you make sure the property is not in an area that will be affected by a change due to environment, map/technology limitations, or human error? It's very uncertain. FEMA itself, as per BW12 and HFIAA, is supposed to include future conditions in the maps but that will take a long time to materialize. One good alternative I’ve found recently has been this website which shows flood risk per property as a score and helps me identify quantitatively, the flood risk of properties both inside and outside of FEMA floodplains:

https://www.beyondfloods.com/

Unfortunately it seems this site is only providing information for NYC right now. I’m hoping they expand to my area in Florida. Many of us would benefit from knowing flood risk at this high level of detail in Florida.

Another gov resource that tries to provide a visual way to look at sea level rise scenarios for various high risk coastal areas i found

Sea Level Rise Viewer | Digital Coast

This site is cool, but it is hard to relate to it as an individual property owner.

Last edited by MikeEren; 01-16-2015 at 05:16 PM..
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Old 01-16-2015, 07:02 PM
 
4,676 posts, read 9,953,139 times
Reputation: 4908
Some communities are doing a better job with their flood maps than others. I love online fully customizable GIS maps.

I'm looking at two houses now. Base elevation 13ft. Both lots 100% upland. Elevation of house #1 48 ft, house #2, 54 feet. If they flooded due to storm...........well......don't think I'd be around to worry about rebuilding... as that storm would be of epic proportions! If you go to the very southern end of the development..........different story. They may be bigger lots.. but there's a reason for that....they are partially in a flood plain........small part Shaded "X" larger unbuildable part AE.

One currently owned property is in mixed zone "Shaded X" and nothing. House in 100% nothing. Shed at back of property is "Shaded X". I keep flood insurance on the house as base elevation is 13 feet....house is 14 ft. Future for this house? I expect AE zone.

Former property is in AE zone. Previously flooded and beat up in Hurricane of 38. It has never ever flooded since the day it was moved in 1941 from what is now a VE zone and set down on a new granite crawl space in AE. All it took was moving it back 95 feet. Zero damage from Hurricane Carol in '54 which chewed up and spit out the Rhode Island coastline. Next door neighbor was flooded. Zero damage from Donna..........zero damage from Irene and Sandy. Base elevation 11 feet...........house at 14ft.

However, in the case of this house, I expect in time...with land mass sinking and seas rising it'll be back in VE zone.

I suppose owners and buyers need to educate themselves. Look at the topography, the types of vegetation, ponding waters after heavy rains...........new construction taking place which can change run-off patterns (though it is not supposed to!), underground streams, dry stream beds... I guess.. in short.. look at everything!
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Old 01-18-2015, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Florida
7 posts, read 13,291 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocngypz View Post
I suppose owners and buyers need to educate themselves. Look at the topography, the types of vegetation, ponding waters after heavy rains...........new construction taking place which can change run-off patterns (though it is not supposed to!), underground streams, dry stream beds... I guess.. in short.. look at everything!
I hear ya. In some communities the differences in quality of the FEMA maps are like day and night. Maps for several communities in Florida are decades old and you can’t even locate developments that have been in place for years.

I also love these online GIS maps that show me details, as I like to get a sense of the location in and around a property. The problem I still face is that these tools vary in quality and accuracy, making it hard to interpret the already flawed FEMA maps. The majority of them point me to the zone (which after a painful process of education I think I can differentiate a A from a V zone floodplain) and BFE and they leave me hanging there. Or present me with lots of GIS data that I’m not gonna be able to use cause I don’t have any of the software they need (or the time to learn about it). Florida has some good online maps (Palm Beach comes to mind) but none take into consideration the details you mention, like topography, vegetation, ponding. That’s why I like the sites I mentioned in my previous post. Beyond Floods gives a full report including elevation of the property and many other factors. NOAA Viewer at least shows those areas that will be affected by sea level rise. I also found an online tool by the state of NC that tries to provide more detail per property.

Yes, if purchasing a property is gonna be the largest investment in your life, you better gather every piece of info you can get a hold on to. It’s amazing how lightly people take a decision like that, considering the risk. Most buying criteria seems to be centered around home interiors and location benefits like commute, amenities, crime, schools etc., whereas higher risk / higher cost items like floods are ignored at the time of purchase.
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Old 01-18-2015, 11:41 AM
 
4,676 posts, read 9,953,139 times
Reputation: 4908
It is welcoming to see that some communities take flooding seriously and are requiring all new subdivisions to be 100% upland. However, there is nothing to prevent knocking down an existing structure and rebuilding.

Couple of weeks ago I saw a 1.6 acre lot with an old 5 car garage extant come up on my listing feed. I looked at the price - $349K which is a bargain up here. I thought.. ut oh........

Yep 100% Zone AE. You don't realize it from the street due to foliage and fencing, but the entire lot is below base elevation and is adjacent to tidal estuaries.
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Old 01-20-2015, 07:35 AM
 
Location: Florida
7 posts, read 13,291 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by ocngypz View Post
It is welcoming to see that some communities take flooding seriously and are requiring all new subdivisions to be 100% upland. However, there is nothing to prevent knocking down an existing structure and rebuilding.

Couple of weeks ago I saw a 1.6 acre lot with an old 5 car garage extant come up on my listing feed. I looked at the price - $349K which is a bargain up here. I thought.. ut oh........

Yep 100% Zone AE. You don't realize it from the street due to foliage and fencing, but the entire lot is below base elevation and is adjacent to tidal estuaries.
Does your listing site tell you about the flood risk? I always wonder how much real estate sites research the property natural risks. I understand this is all caveat emptor, but we're talking about regulations. California requires seller & agent to comply with full natural hazard risk report:

Standardized Natural Hazards Disclosure Statement - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-20-2015, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Scott County, Tennessee/by way of Detroit
3,352 posts, read 2,813,019 times
Reputation: 10348
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeEren View Post
I agree with the views of many of the posters here, especially of being weary of properties in areas of high flood risk. The problem is that flood hazard identification and flood insurance legislation keeps changing. For example, how do we know how FEMA's maps will look in the future? How we understand flood prone areas keeps changing due to better data, land development, or systemic changes such as climate change and sea level rise. A house that it is outside of the FEMA floodplain now could very well be inside the floodplain in the near future due to these factors. Plus the maps are not infallible. They have lots of uncertainties and sometimes even human errors. See this case in Texas where a property owner who wanted to seriously live outside of the floodplain, bought a property solely based on the effective FEMA maps, only to find his new home mapped into the floodplain after some years:

FEMA fixes flood map mistake | abc13.com

and this case in Florida where residents of Wellington found most of their properties were in the new floodplain, causing uproar which resulted in them getting mapped out of the floodplain again (did not seem like the final outcome was correct, either....there’s got to be at least some flooding risk in this low lying area):

Wellington not in high-risk flood zone | www.mypalmbeachpost.com

The point is, when looking for real estate opportunities outside of the FEMA high risk zones, how can you make sure the property is not in an area that will be affected by a change due to environment, map/technology limitations, or human error? It's very uncertain. FEMA itself, as per BW12 and HFIAA, is supposed to include future conditions in the maps but that will take a long time to materialize. One good alternative I’ve found recently has been this website which shows flood risk per property as a score and helps me identify quantitatively, the flood risk of properties both inside and outside of FEMA floodplains:

https://www.beyondfloods.com/

Unfortunately it seems this site is only providing information for NYC right now. I’m hoping they expand to my area in Florida. Many of us would benefit from knowing flood risk at this high level of detail in Florida.

Another gov resource that tries to provide a visual way to look at sea level rise scenarios for various high risk coastal areas i found

Sea Level Rise Viewer | Digital Coast

This site is cool, but it is hard to relate to it as an individual property owner.
That is what happened to us at our old house near Detroit...bought a house...13 years LATER our house except part of the backyard was then classified in a flood zone so we needed insurance according to or mortgage company....$213 a yr it started out.. then it was going to go up to $2600 a yr...Meanwhile, we knew we were retiring soon and thought "I wonder WHO is going to buy this house with a flood ins bill like that?" I could not understand the people closer to the lake paid $0...anyway..that set off a year long quest and finally we called a surveyor to come and he found out we WEREN'T even IN a flood zone....after he measured everything....we probably should have called him when we first started paying....and if it never WOULD have gone up, we would have been like dopes paying the $213 a yr.... We are on a hill in Tennessee now....no more phony flood zones for us....
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Old 05-25-2015, 11:55 AM
 
4,538 posts, read 6,419,982 times
Reputation: 3481
Quote:
Originally Posted by Utopian Slums View Post
Do you have any predictions on how this will impact older home sales and values? Flood insurance is about to skyrocket in 2015, yes?

Are buyers/sellers already factoring this in their list prices/offers in your experiences?

Is there any way to get a discount on flood insurance besides "raising a house?" (eg, low income, disabled, veteran, etc?)

Or discounts for "raising a house?" (eg, low income, disabled, veteran, etc?)


I have been posting many questions lately and i thank everyone for helping this incredibly timid and "OCD-like" potential first time buyer!

THANK YOU!
Looks like folks have already forgot about Sandy, home prices near water shooting up the last 12 months and are above pre-sandy prices by around 5-10%
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