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My agent managed to secure a great price for the condo I wanted, we've opened escrow and now it's down to all the details and forms. So far the important features are all good - the unit's features, area, and the general inspection only found very minor issues.
My main dilemma is how to handle all the little screw-ups that litter the different forms. I think they mostly come from the seller & his agent, though my agent's general approach is "stop nitpicking, it's just minor stuff that doesn't matter". When do you refuse to sign until things are revised, what kind of revision is adequate, and when is it pointless nitpicking that only upsets the seller?
Some examples:
1. They keep mixing up the unit #, as in 101 instead of 110. My agent caught it on the offer and we signed an addendum to correct it, but it keeps cropping up on minor forms, and I talked to the escrow officer who was rather alarmed.
2. Seller disclosure statement: seller forgot to check whether they're occupying the property or not (they don't).
3. I'm supposed to sign that I received the California Residential Natural Hazards pamphlet. I did not.
4. Seller disclosure statement: checked that they're not aware of a "homeowners' association which has any authority over the subject property." Uh, it's a condo with an HOA...?
5. Seller disclosure statement: instead of checking "yes" or "no", they wrote "don't know - seller never lived on the property" next to many questions. Some fine examples:
Are you aware of asbestos, radon, lead pint, mold? Don't know.
Are you aware of Encroachments, easements? Don't know.
Are you aware of flooding or drainage problems? Don't know.
Are you aware of major damage to the property from fire, earthquakes? Don't know.
Are you aware of any lawsuits by or against the seller(...)? Don't know.
Seriously... it's impossible to not know whether you're aware of something or not. If they don't know, why couldn't they just check "no"? Do they gain anything legally from this maneuver? And with all due respect to them not ever living on the property, how as an owner could they possibly not know about "major damage from earthquake" or other things that renters would obviously report right away?
Should I insist that the agents completely re-issue these forms so they're fully correct, requiring seller to sign everything again etc.? Do you annotate and initial, saving work for the agents but cluttering the forms? What if form X has 6 instances of the wrong unit # and they only correct 5? What if they send me an addendum that says "forms x,y,z apartment number refers to #110 and not #101", would that be sufficient?
My agent managed to secure a great price for the condo I wanted, we've opened escrow and now it's down to all the details and forms. So far the important features are all good - the unit's features, area, and the general inspection only found very minor issues.
My main dilemma is how to handle all the little screw-ups that litter the different forms. I think they mostly come from the seller & his agent, though my agent's general approach is "stop nitpicking, it's just minor stuff that doesn't matter". When do you refuse to sign until things are revised, what kind of revision is adequate, and when is it pointless nitpicking that only upsets the seller?
Some examples:
1. They keep mixing up the unit #, as in 101 instead of 110. My agent caught it on the offer and we signed an addendum to correct it, but it keeps cropping up on minor forms, and I talked to the escrow officer who was rather alarmed.
2. Seller disclosure statement: seller forgot to check whether they're occupying the property or not (they don't).
3. I'm supposed to sign that I received the California Residential Natural Hazards pamphlet. I did not.
4. Seller disclosure statement: checked that they're not aware of a "homeowners' association which has any authority over the subject property." Uh, it's a condo with an HOA...?
5. Seller disclosure statement: instead of checking "yes" or "no", they wrote "don't know - seller never lived on the property" next to many questions. Some fine examples:
Are you aware of asbestos, radon, lead pint, mold? Don't know.
Are you aware of Encroachments, easements? Don't know.
Are you aware of flooding or drainage problems? Don't know.
Are you aware of major damage to the property from fire, earthquakes? Don't know.
Are you aware of any lawsuits by or against the seller(...)? Don't know.
Seriously... it's impossible to not know whether you're aware of something or not. If they don't know, why couldn't they just check "no"? Do they gain anything legally from this maneuver? And with all due respect to them not ever living on the property, how as an owner could they possibly not know about "major damage from earthquake" or other things that renters would obviously report right away?
Should I insist that the agents completely re-issue these forms so they're fully correct, requiring seller to sign everything again etc.? Do you annotate and initial, saving work for the agents but cluttering the forms? What if form X has 6 instances of the wrong unit # and they only correct 5? What if they send me an addendum that says "forms x,y,z apartment number refers to #110 and not #101", would that be sufficient?
Thanks!
Information that is legally verifiable, like the unit #, absolutely should be correct. You're signing contracts, and they have to be accurate.
However, in terms of the disclosure, they allow the "not aware" option for a reason, and sellers often take advantage of that option. I might say I don't know if there has EVER been "major damage from an earthquake," especially if I didn't own it from the time it was built, and what if someone was filing a lawsuit against me the day I signed the form? You can't really say whether that kind of stuff is "correct" or not. It's a kind of loophole.
They apparently wanted to make it known that they had never lived in the unit, which may be why they did not just check "no."
You do YOUR due diligence to verify the easements etc. Have them correct the unit #. Let the agents clean up the contracts.
1. They keep mixing up the unit #, as in 101 instead of 110. My agent caught it on the offer and we signed an addendum to correct it, but it keeps cropping up on minor forms, and I talked to the escrow officer who was rather alarmed.
This is the only one I see a problem with. The bank you try to get a mortgage from will reject your paperwork until it is correct. Not a big deal, but better to deal with it now so it doesnt cause a delay in your rate lock, etc.
You cannot force a seller to correct a disclosure notice. They filled it out how they wanted to fill it out. If it doesn't protect them from future liability, that's their problem. The law says they will provide a disclosure. It doesn't say anywhere that you have to agree with the disclosure.
While the referenced disclosure items are probably not that big of a deal, the further incorrect transposition of the unit number ... would cause me to wonder what else they had overlooked in their casual, imprecise approach to this sale. It is much easier to correct contract errors before things are finalized, than after the fact.
Location: Mokelumne Hill, CA & El Pescadero, BCS MX.
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The correct response if a seller doesn't know is the "Don't know" answer. If they check no and it turns out to be yes, they've put themselves in a difficult position.
The agent has the address wrong in the forms program and is forgetting to correct it. I think most of CA uses ZipForms like we do. I would have your agent write one final addendum at closing for everyone to sign making the address correction for the wrong addenda that follow the one you did to correct it initially. Legally, the addenda supersedes the previous ones so the listing agent keeps trying to sell the wrong property. You'll need to correct that again. Yes, one final addenda that corrects all of the previous errors is sufficient because it overrides any previous addenda. That is how addenda work.
The other stuff. I agree with Falconhead. You can't make the seller fill out the disclosure form the way you want it, but you can insist that all boxes are checked. The seller doesn't want to make a representation for legal reasons so it means you need to do your due diligence.
Thanks for all the responses, everyone. It looks like opinions are split on the matter of the disclosure. Some say that it's benefitting the seller, others that it might hurt him. Some say correct it, others don't bother.
I'm still not sure how "not aware" is different than "don't know". But it's also a good question whether they're required legally to complete a disclosure form or particularly the C.A.R. one with everything done right.
Anyway, I mostly just this is another indicator that the seller doesn't know much about much, and to be extra diligent with everything else like inspection, HOA, escrow, etc. At the end it's important to remember that I'm purchasing the property, not purchasing the seller.
The only serious problem here is the incorrect unit number, and that isn't the seller's error.
Not seeing the problem with the disclosure? They answered the questions; that's all they're required to do. They're not required to answer the questions to suit your preference as far as semantics.
The rest of it is on you and your agent. Your agent needs to give you the proper documents, and you need to research the HOA yourself.
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