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[quote=desertsun41;2548063]Other then a swimming pool and some times a tennis court, I beg to ask who gets more then that for $200-300-500 a month HOA fee in Vegas.
[quote]
Sometimes in the summer when the kids are out of school, things get vandalized. Cleanup is taken out of your HOA dues.
What happens if a sprinkler head breaks from someone accidentally running it over by cutting a corner to close? Taken out of your HOA dues.
Who pays for the lifeguards salary, the insurance on the pool(s) & the utility bills to light those pools? Your HOA dues.
To all who don't know or question what the breakdown is for your HOA money, its very simple. Go to the meetings and be involved! If you attend, ask questions civilly, you can find out this information.
Its like anything else. No one is going to volunteer information, you have to dig for it.
Municipalities do require an HOA in many cities. The HOA however is to deal with such things as common border walls and common landscapin. Such landscaping only districts costs under $20 per month.
Summerlin has a master plan fee of about $40. That takes care of Summerlin. The particular tract may go higher. The relatively heavily landscaped Sun City Summerlin which own three golf course costs $87 per month. Nice places throughout Summerlin have totals under $100.
When HOAs get above $100 it almost always involves some combination of parks, pools, gates, guards etc. Guards are expensive. The strip places have people that will haul your groceries and make dinner reservations. You pay big time for that level of service.
Municipalities have always refused to provide municipal maintenace to private areas whether owned by a group or an individual. You wish to restrict public access your private property rights are respected. But you cannot then ask the municipality to pay for it.
And we all benefit from those HOAs. Lowers the overall tax rate.
This dream that neighborhoods were all fine when we had a half acre and no HOA comes right from a pipe. The battle has been waged forever..."terrible color", "cars in pieces in front", "terrible landscaping". All those are complaints heard in the last year in large lot, non-HOA areas of Las Vegas.
DesertSun I appreciate your compliments and I respect your opinion on HOA's. You are not alone; many people hate HOA's and many people have good reason to hate them.
However, as Garth stated, they are here to stay because the cities have learned that they don't have to provide the services in the communities, yet they still collect the taxes, so now almost every new comminity has an HOA.
My OP was just meant to be a bit of humor, and I never thought it would turn into a discussion, but that's ok, we can exchange some ideas on the subject.
I've lived in three non-HOA communities, and two HOA's. In the non-HOA communities, there were never any neighbor issues.
When we moved to AZ, the community where we elected to live is the Val Vista Lakes Master Planned Community with 24 sub-divisions. 7 of them border one of the 4 lakes, and 5 of the 24 are gated.
Those in the gated communities have 2 association fees. One to the Val Vista Lakes master HOA, and one to the gated community HOA. The gated community streets, street light poles, and common park areas all owned by the sub-division, and they have to maintain all of that.
The fees are reasonable considering the amenities. The master asc fees are about $82/mo and the sub association fee where I live is $58/mo.
The master has a $10mil clubhouse with banquet facilities, which we rent out for weddings, etc., which keeps the master fees down. There are greenbelts, parks and walking areas throughout the square mile development.
We can rent the banquet rooms for our personal use at a reduced fee. The clubhouse area has 10 tennis courts, 3 handball courts, workout room, cardio room, junior onlympic pool, large spa, barbque pits, sandy beach pool, white sand volleyball court, and a small mountain area with water falls. This all sits on the lake, and they have a boat that can be rented by the public (with driver) or by homeowners at a reduced fee.
Two years ago, there was a lot of deferred maintenance in my gated subdivision, so a friend and I decided to run for the board and do our share to help change. All of the board members were well meaning but were depending on the hired mangement company to get things done, and the mgt company wasn't doing it.
It took almost two years, with the board working as a team, to get things organized and running smoothly. The board now is very efficient, business like, and community oriented. Not one person on the board has a personal agenda.
Last year, October, I decided to also run for the Val Vista Lakes master board. That is a well run board, but some mistakes had been made and they had spent too much money on certain items; and were having some maintenance issues. There were some really good people on that board who were working hard to turn things around. I ran for the board so that I could contribute whatever assistance I could to the board in order to continue on the path of improving the community that the current board members had begun.
I was elected to the board in October, and in working with this board and the in-house manager, I can honestly say that this is one of the most professional and well run boards that I have ever seen. Everyone is working hard for the community and devoting a lot of time to make it even better. It's really a good feeling when you are working with a group of people who are business oriented and working hard just for the community.
We disagree on issues, but debate only the issues. Nothing ever turns to personalities. We respect the others opinions. Many times the votes are split. That's expected. We work to get things done.
At present we have one homeowner (out of 2000 homes) attacking us. They have taken their case to the media with an article yesterday in the AZ republic
A tree grows in Gilbert, neighbors threaten lawsuit (broken link)
We remain calm and focused throughout this, even though misinformation is being distributed regarding the issue.
We hired an attorney who normally only represents homeowners against HOA's. We wanted to make sure we were doing the fair thing. We, and our attorney are trying to get things settled by mediation between the two neighbors, so it doesn't result in legal action against the HOA, which can be costly both financially and emotionally. I can't discuss the issue.
There are many boards that are terribly run, with board members who don't understand that they are running a business and have the fiduciary responsibility of acting in the best interest of their community. Some actually end up in physical altercations. Some attempt to misuse their power. Those boards create a bad reputation for all HOA's.
If anyone is in a community with a board run amuck, there is a solution.
Do some research on how to run an HOA.
Study the CC&R's.
Study the basic Roberts Rules of Order (and learn the relaxed rule section for boards under 12 members).
Then get elected to your board, and very very slowly try to make changes for the better. Do not go in and expect things to change overnight.
Do not go in and begin fighting with the existing board members.
Go in with a cooperative attitude
listen and learn what is going on, and be the voice of reason and let others know that you are willing to listen, work hard, and contribute to the community.
It is SO true that if we want a newer or brand new home here in Calif.,we
have no choice but HOA. The ones we are looking at are Briar Creek,a Centex
Community and the fees are $150. No pool,guards. JUst landscaping
and walking trail through a wetlands area. They told us it was for lights
and streets I guess the city does not want to fix those. The
other area is another newish subdivision and its $88-99 a month. From what
I see it doesnt have much landscaping and no pool etc. So that must be for
the streets and lights too. You guys in AZ,NV,and Viginia paying those low
HOAs should be glad you dont live out here in CA. Stinks.
1. Because they won't let me park my cars on my yard
2. Because I couldn't have a clothes line in my front yard.
This is a satirical look at the HOA vs Non-HOA question. Others may have some good photos and humorous antidotes.
On the serious side, there are many non-HOA communities that are excellent communities, so I'm not knocking them. I just think we should have a little humor.
Because they won't let me work on my car in the back yard.
Because they won't let me improve my home by placing the closet doors on the front of my house.
Because they won't let me keep my cooler in the yard.
Because I can't even lean a pallet against my house, even though it is in the back yard.
DesertSun I appreciate your compliments and I respect your opinion on HOA's. You are not alone; many people hate HOA's and many people have good reason to hate them.
However, as Garth stated, they are here to stay because the cities have learned that they don't have to provide the services in the communities, yet they still collect the taxes, so now almost every new comminity has an HOA.
My OP was just meant to be a bit of humor, and I never thought it would turn into a discussion, but that's ok, we can exchange some ideas on the subject.
I've lived in three non-HOA communities, and two HOA's. In the non-HOA communities, there were never any neighbor issues.
When we moved to AZ, the community where we elected to live is the Val Vista Lakes Master Planned Community with 24 sub-divisions. 7 of them border one of the 4 lakes, and 5 of the 24 are gated.
Those in the gated communities have 2 association fees. One to the Val Vista Lakes master HOA, and one to the gated community HOA. The gated community streets, street light poles, and common park areas all owned by the sub-division, and they have to maintain all of that.
The fees are reasonable considering the amenities. The master asc fees are about $82/mo and the sub association fee where I live is $58/mo.
The master has a $10mil clubhouse with banquet facilities, which we rent out for weddings, etc., which keeps the master fees down. There are greenbelts, parks and walking areas throughout the square mile development.
We can rent the banquet rooms for our personal use at a reduced fee. The clubhouse area has 10 tennis courts, 3 handball courts, workout room, cardio room, junior onlympic pool, large spa, barbque pits, sandy beach pool, white sand volleyball court, and a small mountain area with water falls. This all sits on the lake, and they have a boat that can be rented by the public (with driver) or by homeowners at a reduced fee.
Two years ago, there was a lot of deferred maintenance in my gated subdivision, so a friend and I decided to run for the board and do our share to help change. All of the board members were well meaning but were depending on the hired mangement company to get things done, and the mgt company wasn't doing it.
It took almost two years, with the board working as a team, to get things organized and running smoothly. The board now is very efficient, business like, and community oriented. Not one person on the board has a personal agenda.
Last year, October, I decided to also run for the Val Vista Lakes master board. That is a well run board, but some mistakes had been made and they had spent too much money on certain items; and were having some maintenance issues. There were some really good people on that board who were working hard to turn things around. I ran for the board so that I could contribute whatever assistance I could to the board in order to continue on the path of improving the community that the current board members had begun.
I was elected to the board in October, and in working with this board and the in-house manager, I can honestly say that this is one of the most professional and well run boards that I have ever seen. Everyone is working hard for the community and devoting a lot of time to make it even better. It's really a good feeling when you are working with a group of people who are business oriented and working hard just for the community.
We disagree on issues, but debate only the issues. Nothing ever turns to personalities. We respect the others opinions. Many times the votes are split. That's expected. We work to get things done.
At present we have one homeowner (out of 2000 homes) attacking us. They have taken their case to the media with an article yesterday in the AZ republic
A tree grows in Gilbert, neighbors threaten lawsuit (broken link)
We remain calm and focused throughout this, even though misinformation is being distributed regarding the issue.
We hired an attorney who normally only represents homeowners against HOA's. We wanted to make sure we were doing the fair thing. We, and our attorney are trying to get things settled by mediation between the two neighbors, so it doesn't result in legal action against the HOA, which can be costly both financially and emotionally. I can't discuss the issue.
There are many boards that are terribly run, with board members who don't understand that they are running a business and have the fiduciary responsibility of acting in the best interest of their community. Some actually end up in physical altercations. Some attempt to misuse their power. Those boards create a bad reputation for all HOA's.
If anyone is in a community with a board run amuck, there is a solution.
Do some research on how to run an HOA.
Study the CC&R's.
Study the basic Roberts Rules of Order (and learn the relaxed rule section for boards under 12 members).
Then get elected to your board, and very very slowly try to make changes for the better. Do not go in and expect things to change overnight.
Do not go in and begin fighting with the existing board members.
Go in with a cooperative attitude
listen and learn what is going on, and be the voice of reason and let others know that you are willing to listen, work hard, and contribute to the community.
Wow....Big post and all I can say is I hope you are in charge of my neighborhood. Sounds like a nice place you are in with all the lakes.
Municipalities have always refused to provide municipal maintenace to private areas whether owned by a group or an individual. You wish to restrict public access your private property rights are respected. But you cannot then ask the municipality to pay for it.
That's the issue. It has nothing to do with a "pipe."
Until the advent of HOAs, parks, community swimming pools, medians, and all such things were not "private areas." They were public facilities for those who couldn't afford or wouldn't afford to pay for their own amenities. The local government entities paid for them.
Local government used to provide for community parks, the gazebo in the center of town, the playground equipment for the children, and other countless things. It contributed to the welfare of the community where summer concerts were held, meetings took place, and the community gained a sense of self. It brought people together.
Here's an example of a community park in my new home town. I'm happy to attend summer concerts in the park, say 'hi' to my neighbors from the adjoining neighborhood, and sit on the park bench watching the children play catch on the lawn while I eat my lunch.
BTW, nowhere in town have I yet to see anyone park on their lawn or paint their house a color that I find offensive. We have a community where people take pride in their neighborhoods and the town takes responsibility for its welfare and future.
Here's another picture of one of the oldest neighborhoods in the town. It's a turn-of-the-century neighborhood without CCRs and nor an HOA. Although it's filled with smaller homes from that era, which some might think would have experienced a blight, trash and car-on-the-lawn problem, each and every house is a turn-of-the-century beauty. It's a wonderful neighborhood for walking and greeting others.
Today, these things are no longer provided by the existing tax dollars that used to pay for them. Instead, they are paid for by the HOA through an added level of quasi-governmental taxation on those who reside in the neighborhood.
Additionally, it contributes to the decline in the sense of community. People enter behind gates, keep out the neighbors in adjoining housing tracts, and no longer work for the benefit of the overall community. They effectively hide behind gates.
People who wish to buy a new home in many areas are then forced into paying for these amenities because they have no other options. They can't get away from it and then they become isolated from the community where they chose to live.
Personally, I think much of it has to do with a change in the population where they think they are entitled to such things as pools and other stuff. If the town didn't see fit to develop extensive amenities, people used to have to earn such things through years of hard work and success. Yet today, they see the concept of an HOA as being able to provide them with something they couldn't otherwise afford and didn't earn, through the forced participation of their neighbors. IMO they're stealing from their neighbors pockets, who we must remember are often forced into buying into such neighborhoods because nothing else is available.
Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt
This dream that neighborhoods were all fine when we had a half acre and no HOA comes right from a pipe. The battle has been waged forever..."terrible color", "cars in pieces in front", "terrible landscaping". All those are complaints heard in the last year in large lot, non-HOA areas of Las Vegas.
As for the "pipe" comment, I can attest that it's not a dream. I know where I lived. I know the community where I was raised. I knew my neighbors. It was a fine place.
Yes, the houses were not all the same variation of beige , not all the houses had the same red tile roof, and not all the houses had the same exact fence (excuse me while I go vomit) filled with Stepford wives and SUVs. It was a beautiful neighborhood where people had been raised and cared for their community. They had grown up a part of environment, had seen that their investment had paid dividends, and had the same expectation of the future.
We were also a part of a responsible municiplaity. Codes existed, streets were maintained, and the city provided for oversight on things that mattered. That's where the responsibilities lay, rather than with entities often staffed by people who too often have been frustrated by an inability to succeed in the bigger picture.
Such frustrated people often see an opportunity to gain responsibility and oversight in a smaller venue. Whereas they were unable to become a success in a broader capacity, they can now exercise the heavy-handed managment skills that kept them from being a previous success. Consequently, that's where many of the complaints come from with HOA managment, through the oversight by a few frustrated, inept, and controlling individuals with poor communication skills.
So olecapt, please keep your "pipe" in your own home. I won't resort to an attempt to draw a similar picture. I will just hope that you can offer any future responses without demeaning others viewpoints with such vulgar metaphores.
The answer is somewhere in the middle. Gbone you're exaggerating big time about HOA's (understandably so), however I don't feel all communities w/o HOA's have "pink" houses & "chicken wire" fences....
As long as your happy where you are, that is the most important thing...different strokes for different folks.
That's the issue. It has nothing to do with a "pipe."
Until the advent of HOAs, parks, community swimming pools, medians, and all such things were not "private areas." They were public facilities for those who couldn't afford or wouldn't afford to pay for their own amenities. The local government entities paid for them.
Local government used to provide for community parks, the gazebo in the center of town, the playground equipment for the children, and other countless things. It contributed to the welfare of the community where summer concerts were held, meetings took place, and the community gained a sense of self. It brought people together.
Here's an example of a community park in my new home town. I'm happy to attend summer concerts in the park, say 'hi' to my neighbors from the adjoining neighborhood, and sit on the park bench watching the children play catch on the lawn while I eat my lunch.
BTW, nowhere in town have I yet to see anyone park on their lawn or paint their house a color that I find offensive. We have a community where people take pride in their neighborhoods and the town takes responsibility for its welfare and future.
Here's another picture of one of the oldest neighborhoods in the town. It's a turn-of-the-century neighborhood without CCRs and nor an HOA. Although it's filled with smaller homes from that era, which some might think would have experienced a blight, trash and car-on-the-lawn problem, each and every house is a turn-of-the-century beauty. It's a wonderful neighborhood for walking and greeting others.
Today, these things are no longer provided by the existing tax dollars that used to pay for them. Instead, they are paid for by the HOA through an added level of quasi-governmental taxation on those who reside in the neighborhood.
Additionally, it contributes to the decline in the sense of community. People enter behind gates, keep out the neighbors in adjoining housing tracts, and no longer work for the benefit of the overall community. They effectively hide behind gates.
People who wish to buy a new home in many areas are then forced into paying for these amenities because they have no other options. They can't get away from it and then they become isolated from the community where they chose to live.
Personally, I think much of it has to do with a change in the population where they think they are entitled to such things as pools and other stuff. If the town didn't see fit to develop extensive amenities, people used to have to earn such things through years of hard work and success. Yet today, they see the concept of an HOA as being able to provide them with something they couldn't otherwise afford and didn't earn, through the forced participation of their neighbors. IMO they're stealing from their neighbors pockets, who we must remember are often forced into buying into such neighborhoods because nothing else is available.
As for the "pipe" comment, I can attest that it's not a dream. I know where I lived. I know the community where I was raised. I knew my neighbors. It was a fine place.
Yes, the houses were not all the same variation of beige , not all the houses had the same red tile roof, and not all the houses had the same exact fence. It was a beautiful neighborhood where people had been raised and cared for their community. They had grown up a part of environment, had seen that their investment had paid dividends, and had the same expectation of the future.
We were also a part of a responsible municiplaity. Codes existed, streets were maintained, and the city provided for oversight on things that mattered. That's where the responsibilities lay, rather than with entities often staffed by people who too often have been frustrated by an inability to succeed in the bigger picture.
Such frustrated people often see an opportunity to gain responsibility and oversight in a smaller venue. Whereas they were unable to become a success in a broader capacity, they can now exercise the heavy-handed managment skills that kept them from being a previous success. Consequently, that's where many of the complaints come from with HOA managment, through the oversight by a few frustrated, inept, and controlling individuals with poor communication skills.
So olecapt, please keep your "pipe" in your own home. I won't resort to an attempt to draw a similar picture. I will just hope that you can offer any future responses without demeaning others viewpoints with such vulgar metaphores.
Pipe dream is vulgar?
A fantastic, impracticable plan or desire: bubble, castle in the air, chimera, dream, fantasy, illusion, rainbow. See real/imaginary.
Maybe unkind...certainly not vulgar.
Hey come on down. You know I am active in my community. I can reasoably easily top your parks...even though we have some gated communities. I can show you our landscaped avenues...and some where the property owner was allowed to do what he wants. Nothing like blocks of sterile walls brought to you by the property owners who shows how much he cares for the other members of the community.
I will show you the guy with the twelve storage units in his back yard...claims it is his god given right. Show you the one with the six junkers and the army trucks on his next door lot. How about the guy who has filled his property 6 feet above his grading plan and towering over the neighbors so he can get a strip view?
How about the guy who has now been building his house for 9 years and is still only half done?
How about the 6 million dollar spread that stuck a huge steel warehouse in the middle of the neighborhood by claiming it was a hay storage structure?
How about the one who has not painted in 15 years and hasn't touched a weed in ten.
How about the guy with the royal blue house in the middle of the grey shaded neighborhood?
How about the neighborhood who forgets about his equistrian hygiene and inundates the neighborhood in flies?
Now remember I live here very happily without CC&Rs. But don't kid yourself. Even in the middle of an expensive area with half acre lots we get a whole lot of contention. And as you get down into higher density neighborhoods it increases. HOAs contain a lot of it...though not all.
Your right wing is really showing on this one Garth..."entitlements"? Just a far right argument that we are all getting soft because some don't share your likes and dislikes. The vast majority of places I know of with community pools are areas where the homes are simply on too tight a lot for individual pools. And that enables those with less money to buy...and developers to make more money selling them homes.
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. No pool,guards. JUst landscaping
I guess the city does not want to fix those. The
