Lower unit owner wants me to pay his ceiling and loss of rent because of my toilet leaking (landlords, lawyers)

[dontaskwhy]

Originally Posted by lurtsman

I'd require that he sign a letter stating he was paid in full and that the payment was not a sign of guilt or negligence.

That would be called a letter of "non-indemnity". I would hire an attorney to draft it for you, well worth the expense IMHO.

[oldtrader]

If there is mold and caused by your leak, then it was going on longer than fixing it right after it started leaking. You may very well be responsible for the damage, due to the length of time it takes for mold to develop and you had not known about the leak.

[dontaskwhy]

Originally Posted by oldtrader

If there is mold and caused by your leak, then it was going on longer than fixing it right after it started leaking. You may very well be responsible for the damage, due to the length of time it takes for mold to develop and you had not known about the leak.

Agreed with this 110%.

[tlarnla]

Originally Posted by JanND

Re-read your paragraph. It clearly says you have to pay. You repaired it, but not before it wrecked the downstairs unit....Which you have not attempted to repair, making this guy have to sue you.

I disagree. It does not say "clearly" that he has to pay. It says that he , "must promptly perform all maintenance and repair work within his own unit".
OP says that he had it fixed as soon as he knew about it, and I believe that any judge would consider that "promptly".
Moreover, I don't know if a leak under his floor is considered "within his own unit".




It I were in the same situation, I'd fight it. I do not recommend that, because I'm not a legal expert (and don't want to be sued for giving legal advice!) My advice to OP is to speak to a lawyer. (I'd check government services to see if there is any sort of low cost legal assistance for housing matters like that.)

But IF I were in the same situation , though, I'd tell the other owner clearly that I didn't know anything about the leak until they told me about it because it was under the floor, I had it repaired as soon as he told me about it, and any mold that he claims was caused by it is his own fault for not reporting the problem sooner.

I would also call the plumber to get more information on the leak, get a letter from him verifying that the leak was under the floor, and ask him if he thinks a leak like that could have caused the type of mushroom mold described.

If the other owner took me to small claims court, I would prepare a letter for the judge presenting my defense, and file a counter-suit for emotional distress. I'd come to court armed with the letter from the plumber describing the nature of the leak, to show my innocence that I could not have known about it without being notified by the downstairs owner. I'd also bring proof (if possible) of when I was told of the leak, when I called the plumber, and the letters from the downstairs letter I received after it was fixed. I'd use this as proof that I had acted promptly. If the plumber said that type of mold was not likely to have been caused by the leak, I'd bring evidence for that too. (If the plumber didn't know, I'd find somebody who did. Somebody in this thread said the description of mold doesn't seem right, so I'd definitely look into that.) If OP was given a chance to take pictures of the downstairs unit, I'd bring photos of the mold and photos that prove that the downstairs bathroom did not have an exhaust fan (I think that was mentioned in this thread, wasn't it?).

Also, if the plumber thought the leak may be due to a problem such as faulty plumbing, or old pipes, then I'd ask the Condo Association to reimburse me for the money I spent on the plumber, and tell the other owner to try to collect lost rent from them. (I think they'd laugh at him.)

I do not know if that is a good idea, but that is what I would probably do.
It would probably be easier to just pay up, but I'm a woman of principal who doesn't believe in letting somebody bully you into paying for something you're not responsible for. Besides, I actually enjoy this kind of thing.

But, that's not my advice! My advice is to talk to a lawyer.


Earlier somebody mentioned just paying up, to maintain friendly ties with the neighbors.
That sounds like good advice if the owner of the other condo actually lived there, but he doesn't. He rents it out other people. He doesn't count as a real neighbor. No need to bend over backwards to please him.




I believe that OP should pay for the damage if they did something to cause the leak, or if they were negligent in getting it repaired. However, when reading the entire thread, it doesn't sound like that was the case. You can't fix something if you don't know it's broken.


As far as we know, the leak and mold may have existed a long time and the tenant didn't care, until her boyfriend asked her to move in with him and she needed an excuse to break her lease. It's also possible that the other owner may have known about it before, but didn't bother doing anything about it until he lost his tenant over it.

[JONOV]

Originally Posted by oldtrader

If there is mold and caused by your leak, then it was going on longer than fixing it right after it started leaking. You may very well be responsible for the damage, due to the length of time it takes for mold to develop and you had not known about the leak.

The Mold got so bad because the apartment was unoccupied. The resident had been staying with her boyfriend, and hadn't been home in two weeks. If you let the wet sit on sheetrock for two weeks, Mold will grow.

Also, is the Mold even a problem? What I'm saying is, the water damage necessitated the replacement of the sheetrock, with or without the mold. The mold is just a knee jerk fear based reaction. Most molds aren't the type to kill you.

[1insider]

Lawyers typically cost more than sheetrock guys. OP could probably have settled this for a paltry amount early and been a hero to the neighbor. Fighting to be right can be expensive and time-wasting and, in this case, create a toxic relationship that will likely yield more rotten fruit.

[jackmichigan]

Originally Posted by 1insider

Lawyers typically cost more than sheetrock guys.

Yep. If insurance won't cover the lower unit's damage, try to work something out.

[Vector1]

I don't understand how there is even a question here. If your toilet leaked and damaged someone else's property, why wouldn't you pay?
Just because it might not have been intentional, nor even negligent on your part, since when does that give you the right to tell the neighbor to go pound sand?

Heck if you are driving and your car (though no fault of your own) loses control due to a mechanical malfunction and hits another persons car, do you think you should not be held responsible

[Rabrrita]

Originally Posted by jackmichigan

Yep. If insurance won't cover the lower unit's damage, try to work something out.

And, that is the reason this became a problem, according to the OP, they DID NOT HAVE INSURANCE when this occurred, they only got it after they needed it. Had they had insurance, it would be in their carriers hands and they wouldn't be asking what to do. But, since they had no insurance, they appear to be looking for some escape hatch.

[SandyJet]

Most condos require residents to have own insurance policy so you might have been in violation.