Quote:
Originally Posted by spencgr
You haven't explained the issue....you put an offer on an "as-is" property, and now want the seller to adjust the price or make modifications?
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I didn't get into specifics because I didn't want to detract from the OP, only let them know that there are others with similar issues with AS-IS properties.
Yet since you seem curious...
Before we even had a chance to put our offer in, the Selling Agent sent a 14 page Sales Contract Addendum that essentially said, as our RE attorney put it (not a direct quote as my memory isn't that perfect): This means you can't learn anything about the property other than what you as the buyer can see with your eyes during a viewing, they won't disclose anything at all about it, and you are to have zero expectations as to repairs. This gives them every protection and you absolutely none. I wouldn't agree to this if I were you.
The problems for us started with the contradictions within that addendum. For instance, we were told that they would not turn on the electric or water, even though the electric was already on at the home, and it appeared the water was as well since it wasn't properly marked with the usual signs of a winterization. After we (through our agent) inquired about the water being on or not, she again said "No water". Our mortgage agent stressed that although we could do two assessments, one without water, and another with, it didn't make sense unless the Seller was willing to pay the cost, and ultimately the water would have to be turned on for the second assessment. Over time (which I'll get into at length below), it became evident that she's just riding out her time until she can get a buyer who will treat the place as a full rehab/tear down even though it really isn't at all or just pay cash only. We're not in a hot market, we're not in a tear down and build a McMansion market either.
One thing I think worth mentioning is that our Buying Agent had, some years ago, worked with this same Selling Agent on a property much like ours. What ultimately happened was the water was turned on, and FM had to pay for repairs so the mortgage would go through. In my limited knowledge opinion, she is trying to avoid that same circumstance again or that home was a Homepath, which this one for some reason, never was. Our agent couldn't recall if the other was or not.
Since then, the only bargaining issue we have had is regarding the water/plumbing. Keep in mind that we seem to be the only party interested in this property--and we have asked directly. It's not like they accepted our offer as in the OP's case because we still haven't made one. Once the selling agent sent that document, everyone on our side has been fixated on it, so we've been working with the one issue: water/plumbing.
This has been our progress since then:
- Inquired as to whether the water was already on since we had been told no electric and that was on. (I was kicking myself for neither of us trying the faucets at our first viewing, but it was our first home viewing ever, and we both assumed the other had.) Response, "No, it's been winterized".
- When we said there wasn't the usual signage present for winterization, so we were asking has it really been winterized, we were told, "Yes and it can't be undone."
- At this point, I had started researching what rights we had as buyers in an AS-IS state like MA is. I found that not only did we have a right to ask for the things we'd been asking to, but she had a responsibility to answer truthfully when we made specific disclosure requests. I also started learning how Fannie Mae acquires properties, how REOs have to have an assessment before putting them on the market, and how Fannie Mae in particular has a condition report that classifies the overall condition of the home. What didn't make sense is that I found a document with HUD requirements for homes in their possession, and the time period in which FM had the home, it was NOT within the window of when the HUD requires winterization. In fact, the document specifically says NOT to winterize within a certain time of year. Yet we thought perhaps the bank that had previously owned the home had done so, which would make sense since they got it in January of this year. I contacted FM on their complaint line, and the person I spoke with said we did have merit in our complaint, and promised to follow up. They were supposed to send me a follow up e-mail with our case # and we were supposed to get a call back from a rep who could help us. We got neither. (Had I known, I would not gotten off the phone before I got the e-mail.) When we told our agent that we contacted FM, he said it would best if we could work things out more amicably, which we saw the sense in, although our mortgage agent has been pressing us again of late to contact them again. This process of research has been ongoing, and overlaps with the following, but the timeline is in my head quicker than doing it more properly. (Laziness on my part at the moment.)
- When we inquired if the property could be un-winterized, tested, and re-winterized at our expense if we decided to walk, we were told, "No, your company will do it wrong and we'll be stuck with the issues."
- When we returned to the home for a second look (specifically at the plumbing), a few new signs had been put up and the toilet was closer in appearance to what one expects when winterization is done. This was a change from the first time--and less than two weeks later. We did note down the name of the company--which was done in the time frame the HUD said not to do so if the record we saw was correct and not fabricated. We then adjusted our question to ask if the above could be done where we would front the cost of re-winterizing using the same exact company. Response, "No."
- This was the point where I contacted our mortgage agent about what was going on and he was blown away at how this one issue had grown. At his recommendation we requested if it would be allowed for two assessments, as mentioned above, with the understanding that no repairs if issues were found would be expected or implied on the part of the lender. Response came back "no".
- At our mortgage agent's recommendation, we then requested if we could be given a written statement as to why the water could not be turned back on (disclosure). A response was not given until our agent made several requests, her answer, "No".
- Out of frustration, we asked how she expected us to buy the home if she was unwilling to disclose or allow water, response was "Get a 203K loan" (rehab). Could we get one? Yes. But it would ultimately cost us more, and we didn't need such, having adequate funds to take care of the now assumed needed repair/replacement.
- Found out on another forum that someone else had gotten a special waiver over the water, but the home they bought from FM was a total rehab, thus a different loan, and I could not find anything via the FM site about such regardless of loan type. When we inquired as to such, as well as if we could at least know the classification of the Property Condition Report, her response was, "I've never heard of such." This infuriated me because it's part of the FM Selling Agent documentation. How can she be an authorized FM seller, and never have heard of such?
- When I spoke to our agent again because he also had never heard of such, I sent him links to FM's site where the property disclosure reports and classifications are mentioned. He still pressed for further documentation. I asked him, "It's on her client's site. Do I need a certified letter from FM for Pete's sake? Why am I having to prove this is part of the woman's job?" He dropped the matter.
- When we replied that we had adequate funds to cover even replacing the entirety of the plumbing (the house is a 672 sq. ft. footprint and the kitchen/bath are right next to each other, laundry directly below--so not much cost at all), so we don't need a rehab loan, we just need a disclosure or allowed to test the plumbing, the response again was "no", and again the response came back only after several contacts from our agent.
- Our last effort was finding a plumber who said they could air pressure test the plumbing without harming the winterization, so we offered such. Again, with pressure from our agent, she finally answered, "no."
So that's where we are, almost a month after we first looked at the home. I've been waiting for the holiday to end so I can talk to our mortgage agent and see what to do next. I'm already assuming we'll be talking to our RE attorney again soon about some sort of "put up or shut up" paperwork. I'm annoyed that it's almost a month later and we still haven't put in an actual bid, but I understand why our side has wanted this matter cleared beforehand at the same time.
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