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Find you a buyer. Enough said. Actually, I'll add one more thing. For those of you who say you can go FSBO, many buyers you find via that route want a discount equal to what you would have paid the realtor. Not only that, considering the legal transactions involved, I for one wouldn't feel confident of my ability to conclude them accurately, since I'm not a lawyer, although others might. The fee for that assurance alone is worth it.
I guess my question was more rhetorical. But the mere mention of going fsbo or flat-fee then real-estate agents will try to frighten sellers with imagined things that can break a deal. The reality is that for a sale, the buyer's agent uses a boiler plate contract. Once the price is agreed to and the contract is signed then the attorney's take over. The real-estate agent will open the door for the inspection!
I agree the real-estate profession will go the way of the Edsel or at least the business model will change drastically.
The bigger question is what value do they add in selling a property? Why should I as a seller
that has built up equity in a property give the real-estate broker & buyer's agent a total of
6% of the sale price? Doesn't make any sense at all.
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Originally Posted by Scooby Snacks
Find you a buyer. Enough said. Actually, I'll add one more thing. For those of you who say you can go FSBO, many buyers you find via that route want a discount equal to what you would have paid the realtor. Not only that, considering the legal transactions involved, I for one wouldn't feel confident of my ability to conclude them accurately, since I'm not a lawyer, although others might. The fee for that assurance alone is worth it.
So true. Here's another value: When I bought my new house and sold my old one, last summer, my real estate agent saved me 11x more than he was paid for both transactions combined. And that doesn't even count the hand-holding.
So true. Here's another value: When I bought my new house and sold my old one, last summer, my real estate agent saved me 11x more than he was paid for both transactions combined. And that doesn't even count the hand-holding.
What does that even mean "my real estate agent saved me 11x more than he was paid for both transactions combined???? Prove it.
Find you a buyer. Enough said. Actually, I'll add one more thing. For those of you who say you can go FSBO, many buyers you find via that route want a discount equal to what you would have paid the realtor. Not only that, considering the legal transactions involved, I for one wouldn't feel confident of my ability to conclude them accurately, since I'm not a lawyer, although others might. The fee for that assurance alone is worth it.
The buyer's agent finds you a buyer - they get notified or can search for new listings daily - supposedly they monitor that for their clients for a match. The seller's agent just puts the listing in an MLS and is supposed to provide all documents in a timely manner (many can't even do that). A more aggressive seller's agent will supposedly advertise but I am yet to see value in that - maybe on $million+ properties? As for the legal part - why not just hire a RE attorney?
People expect a discount via FSBO ->because<- current system involves RE agents. If it didn't, nobody would ask for a discount, would they? We seriously considered getting a flat-fee MLS listing when we sold our home and now I kick myself in the butt for not doing so - would have saved myself a ton of cash - house practically sold itself and my agent is more of a detriment.
I had the best real estate agent when I moved to a new State. This agent stopped me from making the wrong choice and actually knew what I was looking for better than myself. I loved my agent.
Last edited by stevemorse; 12-13-2015 at 12:58 PM..
Finally, to this date, 3 weeks after contract was signed, we still do not have a sheet from our seller agent detailing the breakdown of all closing costs and how much money will we walk away with, exactly. This after repeated text messages, phone calls etc. Apparently, the excuse is that he is waiting on the title office to provide the breakdown.
Your agent is right in this case. Until the closer has been able to gather all information needed, and prepare the breakdown of different things that will be on the closing statement, these figures you want are an unknown. Your agent has nothing to do with computing the figures, or coming up with the answers you desire. Until all the information is available, the closer for the escrow company will not/can not come up with the figures you want. Until then, it is just a guess and will normally not be very accurate. This is the reason you are not getting those answers, as they are not allowed to just guess.
Sometimes, the final figures are not available to the person preparing the closing statement, until the last 24 hours before the closing is to take place. It all depends on people getting the figures to the closer at the Title Company.
Right now you are asking for the impossible. Just be patient, and you will get the answers.
Your agent is right in this case. Until the closer has been able to gather all information needed, and prepare the breakdown of different things that will be on the closing statement, these figures you want are an unknown. Your agent has nothing to do with computing the figures, or coming up with the answers you desire. Until all the information is available, the closer for the escrow company will not/can not come up with the figures you want. Until then, it is just a guess and will normally not be very accurate. This is the reason you are not getting those answers, as they are not allowed to just guess.
Sometimes, the final figures are not available to the person preparing the closing statement, until the last 24 hours before the closing is to take place. It all depends on people getting the figures to the closer at the Title Company.
Right now you are asking for the impossible. Just be patient, and you will get the answers.
Hmmm. I am not asking for precise numbers - more like what items will be on the list and ballpark figures. This is an all cash deal with no bank financing and very simple terms. It is not about getting the estimate within the $100, I am more interested in the big picture
No need to be sorry, you are only responsible for yourself
I understand that there are bad apples in every profession. However, I guess I am asking if there is any value to the profession at all. Doctors will always add value, lawyers too. There was a time cab drivers added value as well... It's just that at 6% commissions - how much money gets taken overall in United States per year on all RE transactions? I am not sure I know how much money gets turned in a given year in RE but 6% of that still sounds like a lot. That makes me wonder - what for?
We went after a car accident to a walk in clinic to learn that wasn't the place to go for what we thought was a minor injury two days after the car incident. They referred us to a car injury place and now we know how these car injury places drain your PIP insurance until the 10K is used and meanwhile they kept talking about a lawyer.
To keep it short we learned the hard way how bad some doctors are and how bad some lawyers are as we never met the first lawyer but later everything changed when we went to a different lawyer and 12 doctors later and 10 years later there was a 2nd surgery which hopefully will result in being pain free.
I'm describing this to show that commission for a realtor can be similar to a doctor who charges money for just giving you the run around and they seem to do it on a regular base.
Over here in Tampa 2 lawyers were suspended for the involvement with 1800 call Gary which is a referral service but they failed to disclose that every doctor they send their clients to they got money for and the doctors all get paid to refer them further to another doctor and doctors who see a patient who doesn't have a lawyer get paid to send them to a lawyer.
Another law office over here in Tampa was in the news as they came across as big shot lawyers showing them on every billboard but nobody had a clue that they make a more than a decent living on just settling for an average of 25k and never been in any court room for a trial as they just settle and advise their clients to settle.
Their first trial ended in a loss! Since one of them is kind of a famous football player their names we linked to being good and trustvorming lawyers and their handsome faces on many billboards made them look like real big shots.
I'm just giving you these examples als they are real life examples and as realtors performing/assisting with many short sales and not getting paid for the huge amount of work and hours put into the file to get it to close and if a short sale is denied or Buyer walks away or Sellers aren't willing to provider the required paperwork to the bank than no commission will ever be paid and all hard work was for nothing.
When a law firm handles a short sale they get paid as they charge either a flat fee or hourly rate ragardless of a Closing and the same counts for preparing a contract...often realtors dont get paid when a deal falls through and a party decides they changed their mond of buying. If a Lawyer preparers a contract they get paid for their work.
Just to put it a little bit in presprective how good agents can get an easy commission check while making no money in another deal that will close when you consider the hours and work.
Thats similar to buying clothes where one item maybe sold for less than the store paid to buy the item and takes a loss while making 80% gain on another item.
Having dealt with selling a home, buying 2 homes, and renting through a real estate agency, I can say with full confidence that I see very little value to a RE agent. If you're clueless about what makes a house sell or how to sell it, then maybe use an agent, but I'm a savvy buyer and seller. My home sold in just over a week in the wintertime, during a bad housing period.
This most recent home I bought I found myself. In fact, my agent found very few houses I liked. I basically did my own house searches--looking online, driving through neighborhoods. Many of the houses she sent me were against my criteria. For example, I specified full brick, yet she sent me a home that was clearly NOT brick at all--just by looking at the pic it was obvious. There were a few homes I was interested in that I missed out on, only to discover a week later they were back on the market. Would've been nice if agents talked to each other and let the other know that their house was back up for sale.
Unfortunately, I stuck with my agent out of a sense of loyalty. The home I purchased was being sold through one of those flat-fee places, and I wish I'd just skipped the agent and dealt directly with the owner, especially when my agent gave me a nice insult--but not until after the closing, when she had the money in her hand.
Oh well. I'll sell my own house next time, whenever that is.
It'll be nice when there's some more change in the industry.
They all showed up in new cars and with glitzy folders full of what they will do for us but unfortunately no substance.
So did you look at any of their active online marketing or just rely on what they said?
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Originally Posted by ognend
I like how you put the onus on me - I am the one who is in error for not "choosing well"
Absolutely. When I first moved to my area I went through three family physicians before I found one I liked and trusted. It is completely up to consumers to continue to search for people that they trust.
You did interview 5 for the sale of your home, so I can't say you didn't try, but why didn't you interview 5 for a buyer agent?
I don't expect all doctors, lawyers, CPA's to be good which is why I keep looking until I find someone that is a good fit for me. You seem to think that because they have a license they should all be good?
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Originally Posted by ognend
Was recommended to us by someone.
Is that a friend that you trust and have a lot of respect for?
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Originally Posted by ognend
Not asking for an EXACT amount, ballpark will do. But no dice...
I think it is good business practice to give estimated net sheets with offers. I think most good agents do that.
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Originally Posted by ognend
Unless they put something in writing or screw something up - there is not much they are liable for.
That isn't true, but I'm not going to argue with you about it. There are a lot more "violation of fiduciary duty" lawsuits happening these days.
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Originally Posted by ognend
You are just confirming what I am saying - if I can do all that (Google.com can point me to city-data and it can also provide links to local police departments and other stats) and the "safe hood" is such a relative term - then what is the function of the agent?
Not at all. A good buyer agent will take the time to figure out your definition of things. My definition of safe might not be the same of yours, just like my definition of fixer isn't generally the same as a regular buyer. That is why you go and look at houses together so you can ask questions and get clarification on their perspective.
I can't tell you how many people tell me they are okay with a fixer, so I show them one, and they look at me like I lost my mind. Removing wallpaper and installing new flooring isn't a fixer in the world of real estate. So by your experience, if an agent doesn't get what you want right away, they are useless?
That's why buyer consultations are important, and the first day out is the "define to my agent what I want day." Agents aren't mind readers. Sometimes buyers can explain what they want well so it is easier to nail down neighborhoods that will have the types of homes they want. Others it is just easier to go into homes and watch them react to get a sense of what they like and dislike.
Then there are those buyers that when you explain to them they can't get what they want get mad at you and think you are lazy, bad, whatever...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ognend
Why do I need to know that? They all pass exams to become licensed, no? There should be some added value. If you cannot tell me an opinion about a neighborhood, you cannot commit to making any characterizations, heck, you are not even liable legally for passing me a bad document done by your counterpart working for the opposing party - what is the added value? I keep hearing about the good REs - fine, I do allow for the chance that we were just unlucky - what does a good RE bring to the table?
Most jobs on the planet are designed that you get your knowledge and expertise while working. Whether you are a plumber, teacher, doctor, lawyer, hairdresser, etc. Getting a license just means you are licensed to start learning that job. I wouldn't expect a first-year doctor to have the same depth of knowledge that a doctor of 20 years has. That is why it is important to know where the rookies get trained. That is just reality. If you think that just because someone has a license for anything they should be required to be good, you will find yourself disappointed a lot, I think.
Agents can give you an opinion on a neighborhood with some limitations related to fair housing. Agents can make characterizations. Some just choose not to for fear of lawsuits. I think an agent is violating their fiduciary duties by not reading documents they pass on to you.
So I think good agents stay up on what is happening in their city in terms of development so when you go to buy a house that appears to be on a dead end street, they should know if that street will become a through street with future city plans because that might be material to the purchase of that house. When you ask an agent, "What is happening over there?" They should have a general idea that a new subdivision by so and so. I had a buyer, who was under contract on a house with another agent, call me once asking about the plans for an old golf course. Now, the plans for this golf course were splattered all over the local newspaper for months. Her agent had no idea what the plans were so she called me to ask. She didn't hire a good agent.
A good agent should have been in enough homes to tell you that homes built by this builder are generally better quality than homes built by this other builder.
A good agent should know to look at the electrical panel in older homes to see if it is Fed Pac or Zinsco. They should know to pull permits an old home before an offer to see if the sewer line has been replaced. If not, then they should be strongly recommending you do a sewer line scope.
A good agent should understand the basics of your area zoning so they don't tell you, you can create a duplex in a single family zone, for example. They should know what types of zoning require farming, understand water rights, and the basics of well and septic systems. I don't expect agents to know how to tell if the footing in a horse arena is good unless they advertise themselves as horse property specialists.
They should know which neighborhoods sell fast so they know to get into new listings within 24 hours.
These are just a few examples, but in a nutshell, a good agent brings information and knowledge to the table. Living in an area isn't the same thing as being in and out of homes in an area. There are pockets all over my city that my agent that grew up here never realized were there, until she was an agent. So when you talk about agents living in an area for a long time that isn't as important as how long they have been an agent in that area. Someone that has been a full-time agent for 4 years, likely has more home knowledge than someone that has lived there for 20 years.
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