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Thank you for posting Arizona's seller disclosure.
There's one part quite different from California, and with which I disagree (as I would want to know).
It's "By law, sellers are not obligated to disclose that the property is or has been: (1) the site of a natural death, suicide, homicide, or any other crime classified as a felony;"
So, if someone had a meth house, an Arizona buyer has no right to know? That's crazy.
Yes, the OP specifically noted that in some areas it is perfectly fine and common to build without a permit, but stated that was not the case where she lives, so I'm not clear what purpose your post serves.
The OP provided her thoughts, but nothing definitive, at least not in the original post.
Veg girl,
You need to find a home where you have some freedom. Where I live you can build a straw bale house, a passive solar house dug into the side of a hill or take down a wall in a house if you want a more open floor plan. Nobody will bother you.
Not every place requires a permit. I can build an entire house in the borough I live in and no permit is required.
You're right. But most places do require some sort of permit. In other places they require all kinds of permits
I remodeled a rental. I did a lot of electrical and plumbing changes so I pulled permits for framing plumbing and electric? Literally about $650 bucks. BUT when I go sell the place believe me it's gonna make a huge difference in putting the buyers mind at ease.
My personal house I remodeled the whole house. New cabinets, carpet, counters, paint doors etc. I pulled no permits because I changed no plumbing lines, drains or electrical. It was all cosmetic changes.
Adding a whole room to a house? And a realtor? A dumbass homeowner I expect to be clueless. But someone who deals in home sales?
Yeah, we bought a house on which the original owner NEVER pulled a permit. My former spouse (didn't buy the house with her) and her family did all kinds of DIY and they always got a permit even though it took a couple of tries to pass the inspection.
The original owner did nice finish work but the electrical work underneath it is frightening. The circuit box (fusebox) is in a bathroom a FEW INCHES FROM THE SHOWER. Definitely not up to code.
At our last house, we built two decks (first and second story) without pulling permits because we didn't want to have to wait to start the work. However, when it was time to sell we did an "after the fact" application with the city to get the work permitted. Thankfully they didn't ask for any more fees than if we had pulled the permits years ago. Also, thankfully, the contractor did quality work and the decks passed. When we listed the house here in Texas, we had to disclose any unpermitted work. I think it was before the contract or maybe shortly thereafter. In any event, that's a major disclosure and I'm glad we did it.
The addition, at least from my view behind a screen, looks nice and flows with the house. But previous posters are right, you don't know if the job was done correctly. There have been horror stories involving unpermitted work.
It was formerly part of the back patio. We pulled up a cache of an old google map image and you could see where the back patio wrapped around to what is now the dining area.
I had a client in AZ (your specific AZ jurisdiction may differ) who got emotional over a home and bought it with an un-permitted addition on the back patio. Fortunately, the jurisdiction did allow for "As Built" permit process which enabled him to apply for a permit.
His research indicated that the inspectors will come and ask for the homeowner or a contractor to open up certain portions of the walls (both interior and exterior) so they can check the quality of the work and if what they are seeing in that representative sampling meets codes. They identify and have certain ceiling areas open so they can poke their head in and take a look around. They check various areas to look at the electrical, plumbing, HVAC and other codes areas. Since the quality looked high and the supposed reputation of the contractor was good, it probably was just an oversight as the seller claimed. No big deal, a few holes and some repair cost.
Unfortunately, the inspector needed some sections of the ground around the foundation excavated so they could check the foundation. As you can imagine, the patio's footers weren't to code for a structure. It was built as a patio cover. Additionally, they required a core be taken in the middle of the patio slab and another issue was discovered.
In the end, he wished he just required the seller to fix everything before closing or walk if they refused. It wasn't worth his aggravation and time once he owned the property. He admitted he probably wouldn't thought twice over the disruptions and time required if it was the seller dealing with this, but for him, it wasn't worth it.
Thank you for your thoughts. I am on the same page, either he gets the permit or we walk. The "best" part? He is an agent himself! I don't see how he thought he would pull his off, just hoping no one noticed?! I plan on asking him to reimburse the inspection. I know it's not a huge amount of money but it'll pay for the next inspection so why not? According to my research this should've legally been disclosed prior to this point. I'm tempted to report this to whatever real estate commission I need to as well. So disappointing.
Well here's the rub - your inspection did exactly what it was supposed to do - find things in or out of conformance. Since you know now on a pre-sale basis, it has been disclosed to you - that is - you know about it now/pre-sale. That pretty much lets him off the hook unless you, prior to inspection specifically asked if there were any non-permitted additions and he answered negative.
A lot of people do things without permits. Replacement windows in many areas require permits but most folks I know don't pull them. Same with water heater replacements, minor electrical work and plumbing stuff. The question is how is significant to you is this and I agree an extension without a permit can be trouble.
In terms of the inspection costs, meh - I would not bother complaining - I mean you can always ask for the inspection costs - however the inspection covered more things than the addition - so pro-ratio refund would really be the fair way it was dealt with - but I myself would pat myself on the back for getting an inspection and move along.
I live in a 130 year old house. A lot of work was done without permits. Full disclosure to a buyer is mandatory, but no one is going to force me to tear out a bathroom that was added in 1922.
I live in a 130 year old house. A lot of work was done without permits. Full disclosure to a buyer is mandatory, but no one is going to force me to tear out a bathroom that was added in 1922.
Moral: every case is different.
Larry and I have both lived in homes that will probably outlast all of us -- the odds of that 1922 bathroom being absolutely "bulletproof" is very high!
The OP has something very different -- a much more recently constructed home that show signs of not being in conformance with either codes that existed back when it was probably initially built, prior to the current "energy & water" standards and certainly not to todays MUCH stricter codes that are designed to ensure a home is safe for the kinds of conditions that have been proven to destroy homes and wreck the value of developments.
Zoning and building codes are designed primarily to keep people safe! That means that an inspector who checks the electrical and plumbing wants to make sure that none of the folks in the home will get electrocuted nor that any of the water or waste connections will poison either folks in that home or "upstream". The layout of the homes is also critical to how firefighters will be able to address any conflagration that might effect the home or the whole neighborhood. There is also a component of ensuring the financial safety of the homeowner and neighbors -- if this things was so poorly added on to that the roof gives way in a bad storm that will have a negative impact on not just who ever is living there but on the ability of neighbors to attract buyers while this wreck gets fixed.
I agree that each situation deserves to be evaluated individually, but the red flags visible in even the glimpse shown here are enough to either kill this deal or make an offer that reflects the costs involved should the "worst case scenario" play out.
In contrast, if and when Larry lists his home for sale I have little doubt that he will happily state "much work done prior to local permit authority existed" or similar disclaimer and given the age / general quality of the work that has stood the test of time I would expect that any inspector would report something like "if all homes were still built like this nobody would need pre-sale inspections"...
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Very true, but for THIS situation...
