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I bought a townhouse last year and now we hate it. Why? Because of a neighbor who keeps throwing a ball against the wall we share with them nearly every day, day and night. I assume it is one of the kids who live there.
I have gone to the neighbors and complained and they just stare at me and slam the door. They are really rough looking. Talking to them is not going to work.
I thought about the homeowners association but looked at the paperwork and I see nothing about noise. The police will come by if it is noise that leaves the house, like a loud stereo, but they told me nothing can be done if the noise does not impact other neighbors too. Crazy.
I am afraid if we complain to the homeowners association then we will be at risk of physical harm or vandalism from these rough looking neighbors.
Anyone here have experience with working the system with noisy neighbors in a townhouse community?
(Both of us own our homes.)
...you have reinforced my hate for both owning a town home or condo, and ever living anywhere there's a HOA, who are little dictatorships in reality.
Chiluvr, have you seen this CD topic from a few years ago? The guy walked around outside and found the sound extremely loud in a van some distance away. Post #20.
Have no other neighbors complained to the police,not just in your building but nearby?
I read the previous thread and it seems I'm not the only person with a bass problem. I live in a community of about 1000 homes spread out with several gated communities, mostly single family homes and a few condos. They are all gated. I can't imagine a van parked anywhere near me for 14 hours straight is doing this. Yesterday it started at 9:30 a.m. and was still going when I went to bed at 11:30 p.m. While I wear earplugs to bed I can't walk around with them all the time. I left the condo and spent hours at Home Depot. (Met a nice guy there and we're having lunch today but that's neither here nor there.) This morning it has just started again at 8:59 a.m.
Since management isn't helping I have been trying to figure out where the noise is coming from but so far I have been unsuccessful by taking a stethoscope and listening at all the shared walls. Today I am going door to door to the most likely offenders. Since I hear it in every room of my unit, I am now thinking it might be the people below me. I only have two shared walls so logically I shouldn't hear it in my bedroom closet which has no shared walls. I know for certain it's not the upstairs neighbors. Today I go on the warpath. "I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore"!!
There is a big problem for some people as they are highly allergic to certain sounds, that do not bother anyone else. They are effected strongly even they are low enough that others do not hear them, or pay attention to them. This can be someone that hates a base sound, or someone that even a low level sound of a child playing with a ball, playing in a pool, or a trampoline etc., is extremely irritating to them.
The person being effected hears the offending noise or sound, as if it is loud and must go. Others listen, and they don't hear something to object to.
Other homeowners next door, and other apartment dwellers, have rights to go about their life as long as they keep things within what for most people is reasonable limits. They have the right for their children to play, or they have the right to play music in their home as long as it is played at what is considered a normal level. They have the right to have a normal conversation in their home.
Now comes the problem that occurs and is a problem to one party only. This is one person is highly agitated by a sound such as a child in normal play mode inside their home/apartment, children playing in their yard, or someone playing music in their home/apartment at what is considered a reasonable level. It is below what the noise ordinances prohibit it. It is not irritating to anyone but the person that is highly allergic/susceptible to certain sounds, noise.
Now comes the problem. The susceptible party complains to management, the police, etc., who on checking it out do not find there is excess noise/sound, and can offer no help to the person with the objections. They can't tell the one making the sound they have to stop it, as in doing so if it is within what is considered normal limits, because the one making the sound also have rights, to go about their normal activities as long as they are within reason for the majority of the people.
Just because one person is susceptible to sound, they cannot force the person making the sounds stop if they are not making sounds that are excessive in volume to what is normal for the circumstances. If you are in a house or apartment that is in close proximity to other houses/apartments, there is going to be some noise/sounds from your neighbors.
Children are going to play, and make a certain amount of noise. They are going to bounce balls. It is just part of life, and expected. If you don't want to hear children playing, etc., then you do not rent or buy a neighboring property. You buy/rent a home in all adult apartment house/neighborhood if you are old enough. This is exactly why senior 55+ communities and apartments are so popular.
If you don't want to hear adults doing normal activities, listening to music in the background (due to they need the sounds to get them through the days and calm their nerves), having guests into their home and talking, walking around their apartment, etc., as long as the sounds are not so loud they would bother the majority of people, then you do not live in an apartment or condo. You live in an adult only apartment/condo/community.
As I have previously stated, my wife has had ear surgery, and is a little hard of hearing. Problem, sudden loud sounds make her jump about 3 feet in her reaction to them. She hears sounds that drive her over the brink, that normal people do not hear as loud or objectionable. I use earphones at my computer, so there are no voices coming out of speakers, as when they start she jumps and it is hard on her nerves.
Due to this problem, we live on a 5 acre lot across the street from the best part of town. Our home is highly sound insulated and 3,700 sq. ft. with 4 levels. Our closest neighbor is about 300 feet. and we sit back from the county road separating the city and county, with a 500 ft. lane which we own from the county road. We only have others living on 2 sides of us. We installed 3 chair lifts, to be able to get between floors as we are too old, to walk up and down stairs safely. I installed a sound modulator for our T.V. sound so there are no sudden loud sounds. We have a lifetime paid Serius Radio receiver hooked up to a good sound system, but we no longer use it, as the sounds drive my wife up the wall. We live where we live, in a home way bigger than we need or want, because it solves the problems my wife would have in closer proximity to neighbors and their noise that would drive her up the wall.
I spent from 1972 util I retired as an investment real estate broker. We bought, sold, and exchanged rental properties for our clients. I took college courses on property management, and I managed numerous rentals for our clients. I was president of our county wide rental owners and managers association for 3 years (over 100 members), and at our annual all day conference, we always had top real estate attorneys speak and give advice to our members.
Every year, one topic would always be what is considered normal, and what is not in apartment units. Sound was covered every year. The real consensus was, If he sounds are below what is considered by city ordinance, or an acceptable level, residents have the right to carry on their lives without telling them they cannot do something that is their legal right to do. If another tenant wants them to stop because it is irritating to themselves but no one else, no one has the legal right to tell that tenant doing something one tenant does not like to stop it. The tenant that is making noise below what is considered a normal level, has the right to continue to do what they have been doing. The other tenants, have a legal right to go about their lives, right to have music, etc., etc., as long as they do not make sounds loud enough to bother the average person living in another unit or house.
Post above says they are going on a warpath, to stop a base sound they object to. A sound low enough it apparently that does not bother anyone but this tenant. In fact the poster does not even know where the sound is coming from, so it is not something loud enough that is bothering anyone else.
When you are abnormally sensitive to sound, and sounds that do not bother the vast majority of people, you cannot go around demanding everyone within an area you can hear the sounds, just stop it. Other tenants have rights to peaceful enjoyment of their home, which includes normal activities. You can't expect everyone else to stop normal activity, just because you are super sensitive, and cannot stand sounds and noise, and volume of sound that is not objectionable to the average person. In cases such as this, the standard must be what would be destructive to the majority of people, and one special person, cannot control what others do.
I remember 1 tenant, that wanted the whole world to revolve around her. She moved into an adult building, and kept her windows open while she slept. She complained when other tenants walked down the hall day or night. She demanded everyone shut off their T.V. before 7 p.m. as that was her bed time and she wanted absolute quiet at that time. There were outside benches, where people would gather in the evenings and a couple of friends would sit and visit. Her window was about 60 feet away but she swore she could hear them, and demanded that people do not use the bench and talk starting at 7 p.m. so she had absolute quiet and she could sleep. Before she lived there a month, we broke her lease and evicted her when the month was up. Either that, or we would lose about a dozen good tenants, that told us she goes or we go, due to all of the unreasonable demands she was making to people.
It is a problem you must solve yourself, as we have solved my wife's problem. We got a place with enough room, that other peoples sounds of just living, do not drive her up the wall.
Begs the question of why you have an HOA.
The homeowners have no legal liability for the actions of an HOA if one does not exist and they certainly do not have liability for the actions of another homeowner.
The fact that it is a legal entity - well at least you recognize that but it's pretty clear you comprehend that but then you seem to retract when you claim it does so for the benefit of the "HOA as a whole". Replace "HOA" with corporation and see what you are saying. Certainly it is not there to benefit the homeowners. That "contracting" ability is how the developer saddles homeowners with liabilities and shifts control away from homeowners. You don't need a management company if you don't have an HOA. You seem to be referring perhaps to a condominium structure. Condominiums are a creature of statute and have an involuntary membership organization as a matter of statute in every state. This thread was directed to HOAs.
Your legal analysis misses the point that the homeowners homes are security for the financial liabilities of the HOA corporation. The HOA corporation might be the one doing the borrowing or running up costs, but your home is on the hook for that. So it's somewhat misleading to claim the homeowners have no "personal legal liability for the actions of the HOA". In the regular corporate world your legal and financial exposure with respect to third parties involving a corporation you are a shareholder of is limited to the dollars you invested in the shares purchased. You own the shares and you have no obligation to invest a dime more into the corporation. In an HOA corporation, however, your home is the share that you can lose AND you have an ongoing financial liability to pay for whatever debts and expenses the HOA incurs or runs up. There is no other corporate environment where the corporation spends its existence attacking and threatening its own members. Management companies have latched onto the involuntary membership and perpetual lien aspects to entangle all sorts of junk fees.
Why should a private entity that has no ownership interest in the property be involved in rentals or private contracts between owners and those owners' renters?
Correct. The HOA and involuntary membership in it are not features put there for the benefit of the homeowners and that was the point of the post. Even if there had been restrictions in place, there is no need for an HOA. The homeowner would have their own ability to enforce. It's unfortunate that folks have to find out this way but what they've learned is that this type of housing is not suitable for their needs and the HOA does not protect them from squat. They will be looking for detached housing and regret the payments they are forced to make to the HOA where they are in the meantime.
You seem to have gotten confused by the whole "Corporations are people" thing and seem unable to recognize that a corporation is not an entity with a mind of its own, it's merely a collection of actual human people. And as has been explained multiple times now, the board is made up of an represents the owners and if a majority of owners disagree with their actions, there are processes in place to remedy that.
And if the HOA wasn't a corporation, it would be a partnership owning the common property in control of the HOA, and yes, individual homeowners could be personally sued in some cases.
It sounds like you are dealing with selfish, unreasonable people. Perhaps if you got a loud recording of a base drum with a speaker pressed against the offending wall. Then, when the ball bouncing started, turn-on the drum recording and allow it to run for about 10-minutes after the ball bouncing stops (or run it in the middle of the night).
I know this sounds childish, but, as with a child, you may need to show them the advantage to themselves of modifying their own ball bouncing behavior. If the situation escalates, involve the police to present a more persuasive argument. (It's sad, but it appears you are caught between a wall and a bouncing ball ... and can either ignore it or deal with it).
It sounds like you are dealing with selfish, unreasonable people. Perhaps if you got a loud recording of a base drum with a speaker pressed against the offending wall. Then, when the ball bouncing started, turn-on the drum recording and allow it to run for about 10-minutes after the ball bouncing stops (or run it in the middle of the night).
I know this sounds childish, but, as with a child, you may need to show them the advantage to themselves of modifying their own ball bouncing behavior. If the situation escalates, involve the police to present a more persuasive argument. (It's sad, but it appears you are caught between a wall and a bouncing ball ... and can either ignore it or deal with it).
Do what jghorton says, and you are the one that is making noise above what is acceptable in an apartment house, and you would be the one that had the police all over you. You are the one making excessive sound that is above what is considered acceptable by the majority of the people.
And if you do something like this, you are the one that is going to be evicted as a trouble maker. As long as the other tenants are not making what is considered excessive noise, etc., they are the ones in the right. Just because you are an unusual case, that sounds that do not bother other people drive you up the wall, does not mean you can force other tenants to not make changes that benefit someone with a super-sensitivity to certain sounds and takes away the rights of a normal life for other tenants. There are going to be some sounds no matter how considerate the neighbor is, that you will hear.
A landlord cannot force other tenants to give you absolute quiet. The same goes for the police. They are limited what they can do, without stepping all over your neighbors rights to live a normal life.
As any good attorney will tell the owner when faced with a super-sensitive tenants objections that would infringe on the rights of other tenants to have a normal life while keeping the noise within reason, will advise the owner to get rid of the trouble maker which is you. I have seen this happen, and have done it myself.
Ways you can make things more like you want:
1: Move to an apartment house, of adults only (no children).
2: Move to another apartment house with better sound insulation between units so no sound travels between units from any side or up or down. Probably cost you a lot higher rent.
3: Use ear plugs, to cut off all outside sound.
4: Move into a house, so there are no common walls. Preferably where the houses are at least 200 feet apart.
As I mentioned, my wife has a problem with sudden noise or loud noises. We chose #4 as our solution. I know that there is no way, that we can live in an apartment house, with children, and even adults due to her problems. There is no way that we could get the management to force other tenants to not make any noise my wife can hear. We have a large custom home on 5 acres with our closest neighbor over 300 feet from our home. Heavy thick walls, that reduce outside sounds. I have to be extremely careful to not make any quick hitting sound as it upsets her causing her to jump and panic. Sound modulator on the T.V. to keep T.V. sound at one set level with no sudden loud noises. If I am going to use something that is noisy such as an immersion blender, I tell her I am going to be doing it before I start it up, so she is prepared.
We are considering building a home on one level, about half the size of this one, and selling our home. We could end up with about $250,000 in the bank in the process. Only problem, is we have been unable to find a lot, that is not way out in the country that gives the distance from other homes we have here to keep our solitude. I have considered buying one 20 acre parcel, and subdividing it into 5 lots with our home separated from the others as much as possible. I know how to do this type of thing, and can do the dividing cheap doing it myself, as that was part of my business for decades. Can end up with our lot Free and maybe make a little cash in the process.
Can you be more clear about how often this is happening?
Is it like, a half hour in the early evening? In which case, I kind of think that's sort of what you put up with in a townhouse.
If this is some kind of obsession, maybe an autistic person, bouncing the ball against the wall from 4 p.m. to 11 p.m. nonstop, that's a different thing.
It seems the person bouncing the ball could do it on the end wall, where they don't have an adjoining neighbor.
I'm curious about those who said you could be sued for not disclosing this. If this is a reasonable offense to not disclose the neighbor's irritating behavior, the neighbors themselves are suable for doing it. This isn't like you knew there were termites. You knew there were these ANNOYING neighbors, and if the buyer sues you, the court would ask well why aren't you suing the people doing this?
I have that same situation in a townhouse, and was wondering what to do about it.... the kid is bouncing a ball or playing basketball inside his bedroom, and starts up at about 7 pm, sometimes 9pm or later....Usually when his mother isn't home, lately he has calmed down a bit, last year he went at it for 30 minutes or so......... it doesn't bother me as much as it bothers my wife.... but I wish he would outgrow it!
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