U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 08-19-2017, 03:54 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
26,855 posts, read 57,874,473 times
Reputation: 29275

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Each person marked his corners of what he thought he owned, and the neighbors agreed with him.
There were over 100 lots. When all agreed, the surveyor did the surveys, wrote the new legal descriptions based on the survey.
This reminds me of an anecdote from the Hernando DeSoto book "Mystery of Capital" LINK

Quote:
Quote:
It was a simple question: How do you know in Bali where one man's property ends and another's begins?

Throughout the third world, the formal systems of property rights taken for granted in advanced nations simply don't exist.
Even after decades, few people officially own the land or homes they occupy; the notion of holding title to property is scarcely found
outside of rigged schemes serving a handful of elites.

But, as de Soto explains this evening in Haiti, his face full of fresh zeal although he is telling the tale for what must be the thousandth time,
you know when you have crossed onto someone else's property in Bali because -- a different dog barks. The dogs know.

http://silentpc.org/desoto.pdf

Last edited by MrRational; 08-19-2017 at 04:07 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 08-26-2017, 05:54 AM
 
6,209 posts, read 6,583,344 times
Reputation: 3091
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
https://www.cga.ct.gov/2009/rpt/2009-R-0448.htm

DELAWARE

In 2000, the Delaware Supreme Court approved a decision by the state's Board on the Unauthorized Practice of Law that a real estate settlement company and three people associated with the company were engaged in the unauthorized practice of law by conducting real estate settlements in Delaware without the assistance of an attorney (In re Mid-Atlantic Settlement Servs., 755 A.2d 389, 2000 Del. LEXIS 243 (Del. 2000)). The board noted that “no attorney is present during these settlements, and in most instances no Delaware attorney is involved in the loan and settlement process . . . In addition, no Delaware attorney reviews the documents used at the settlement” (Mid-Atlantic, 2000 Del. LEXIS 243, at *3-4).

The board found that the company engaged in the practice of law when (1) determining the proper legal description of the property as set forth on the deed to be included on an exhibit on the mortgage and (2) explaining to the borrower the terms of many legal documents, including the note, mortgage, Planned Unit Development Rider, the Truth-in-Lending Disclosure, and the first payment letter.

The court approved the board's recommendation that required an attorney licensed in Delaware to conduct a closing of a sale of Delaware real property or a refinancing loan secured by Delaware real property
.

And, the OP mentioned Delaware.
Title work is attorney work.
Thanks Mike for the link.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2017, 06:18 AM
 
6,209 posts, read 6,583,344 times
Reputation: 3091
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
If it was a proper survey, the surveyor would not have measured starting at a swale, or the edge of the street. They would be following the legal description, and would be starting at the stated permanent and registered marker which may even be a distance from the property. I have seen instances where this marker was over a mile and often more from the property itself. In every legal description, or a subdivision plat, there is always a beginning point which will be a permanent and registered marker. On the other hand if it was just someone measuring using the street or swale or other part of the property as a start point, there is no way that is a survey and those markers put in have nothing to do with the property lines.
Your bolded statement above appears to be the case with what I see on my survey provided at closing 2 years ago. The starting point is in the woods, off my property. The surveyors who performed the recent survey seemed to not be able to find markers such as you described, saying to me they are working off of very old plans. They did not like the results and told me so, got my name and number and said they would talk to their boss and get back with me but never did. I did leave a message on their company phone evetually. If I knew then what I know now I would have dug up my survey for them to see.

The representative of the developer emailed me a copy of the buyers recent survey and appears wrong also. If one was to add up the amount of feet and inches from my survey and those of the new survey there's not enough land in between the 2 house. Their house has 12' more land on the right side than the left. My house is offset by only 2'.

I have now left 3 messages at the law firm that represented us at closing, and still have not returned my calls. So, if I do not hear from them in short order I'm going to park my butt in their office with both surveys in hand.

The new neighbors are angry with me, big time, see nothing wrong with the survey and stated they are going to put a fence up. By the I was very friendly with them..... Very sad.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2017, 07:20 AM
 
6,359 posts, read 7,327,369 times
Reputation: 10807
Quote:
Originally Posted by jmking View Post
Your bolded statement above appears to be the case with what I see on my survey provided at closing 2 years ago. The starting point is in the woods, off my property. The surveyors who performed the recent survey seemed to not be able to find markers such as you described, saying to me they are working off of very old plans. They did not like the results and told me so, got my name and number and said they would talk to their boss and get back with me but never did. I did leave a message on their company phone evetually. If I knew then what I know now I would have dug up my survey for them to see.

The representative of the developer emailed me a copy of the buyers recent survey and appears wrong also. If one was to add up the amount of feet and inches from my survey and those of the new survey there's not enough land in between the 2 house. Their house has 12' more land on the right side than the left. My house is offset by only 2'.

I have now left 3 messages at the law firm that represented us at closing, and still have not returned my calls. So, if I do not hear from them in short order I'm going to park my butt in their office with both surveys in hand.

The new neighbors are angry with me, big time, see nothing wrong with the survey and stated they are going to put a fence up. By the I was very friendly with them..... Very sad.
Did you ever contact the title company?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2017, 07:38 AM
 
6,209 posts, read 6,583,344 times
Reputation: 3091
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmichigan View Post
Did you ever contact the title company?
I've contacted the settlement attorneys, who have not returned my calls yet. The builder is contacting the company that performed the new survey. Where I'm a bit confused and also assuming is it is the settlement attorneys who will provide who the title company actually is. In all my papers I do not see (title company or policy).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2017, 08:55 AM
 
Location: MID ATLANTIC
7,598 posts, read 17,623,584 times
Reputation: 8083
The last 10 days of any month can be a living Hell for most reputable lenders, closing attorney/title companies and Realtors. It has gotten better over the years, but we still have a majority of purchases closing after the 20th of the month. The result is biggest fire, first. Combine this with the last week of summer vacation (people out from work) and school about to start up, and your attorney's schedule can be on overload.

The lack of title information is partially troubling......I say that only because I don't think I could put my hands on my title policy, but I certainly have one. Find your HUD I or Closing Disclosure. On the HUDI, look at section 1100, look for Owner's Title (don't confuse it with Lender's Title). On the Closing Disclosure, look in Section H, Optional Items. If you have it, it will be listed who it is with, along with how much you paid. In Delaware, I am fairly certain it would be there unless you opted out. This is not something offered to you, it's assumed you wanted it. The only time I see it removed is if a buyer has access to unlimited legal advice or is very short on funds to close and costs are being cut. Wait, there's another group, those that don't get it because they don't buy what they can't touch or feel. But my point -> you would most likely have had to say remove this insurance.

Be politely persistent, but if you do go to their office or call again, start requesting to know who they used for title insurance. That will get their attention. But do cut them some slack, it's going to be a very hectic week. Some courthouses are closed on Friday, pushing their Thursday closings to Wednesday. I wouldn't go nuclear until after the long weekend.

Don't worry about the neighbors. You did what you could, when you could. Do start putting your notes in some order. It could be rather difficult to go back and recreate notes 6 months from now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2017, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Back in the Mitten. Formerly NC
3,819 posts, read 4,873,134 times
Reputation: 5242
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmartMoney View Post
The last 10 days of any month can be a living Hell for most reputable lenders, closing attorney/title companies and Realtors. It has gotten better over the years, but we still have a majority of purchases closing after the 20th of the month. The result is biggest fire, first. Combine this with the last week of summer vacation (people out from work) and school about to start up, and your attorney's schedule can be on overload.

The lack of title information is partially troubling......I say that only because I don't think I could put my hands on my title policy, but I certainly have one. Find your HUD I or Closing Disclosure. On the HUDI, look at section 1100, look for Owner's Title (don't confuse it with Lender's Title). On the Closing Disclosure, look in Section H, Optional Items. If you have it, it will be listed who it is with, along with how much you paid. In Delaware, I am fairly certain it would be there unless you opted out. This is not something offered to you, it's assumed you wanted it. The only time I see it removed is if a buyer has access to unlimited legal advice or is very short on funds to close and costs are being cut. Wait, there's another group, those that don't get it because they don't buy what they can't touch or feel. But my point -> you would most likely have had to say remove this insurance.

Be politely persistent, but if you do go to their office or call again, start requesting to know who they used for title insurance. That will get their attention. But do cut them some slack, it's going to be a very hectic week. Some courthouses are closed on Friday, pushing their Thursday closings to Wednesday. I wouldn't go nuclear until after the long weekend.

Don't worry about the neighbors. You did what you could, when you could. Do start putting your notes in some order. It could be rather difficult to go back and recreate notes 6 months from now.
I very much agree. I work in title and we have been busier this last week than we have since about Thanksgiving of last year. It has been a crazy week. I would still follow up next week, but I would wait until after Labor Day to really start demanding things. It will not only likely be a more pleasant exchange, they will have more time to really dig deep into the issue.

You said you purchased two years ago, so I'm guessing you closed with the HUD form, not a closing disclosure. Closing disclosures went into effect in October 2015. Loans already in the process typically still closed with the HUD form. As SmartMoney said, look in the 1100 section. It should say "Owners Title Insurance to XYZ Title Company". Unless you chose your own title company (which I assume you didn't since you don't know who the title company is), it is likely that the same title company handled both the lender side and the owner side. So look at any title fee to see who the payee is. It will give you somewhere to start.



I'm adding this way down here because I don't want it to get too confusing. It is possible to have multiple title companies as payees. The title company I work for will close properties in all 50 states, but due to some laws certain states, we have to act as an agent and go through a second company in certain states. Delaware is one of these states. (We close very, very few loans in Delaware.) You could see one of the big names as the provider- FNTG, Chicago Title (which is part of FNTG but sometimes listed on its own), Old Republic, First American, etc... If you do in fact see multiple companies being paid, your best first step is to start with the little guy. They will likely have fees paid to them like a recording service fee, a settlement or closing fee, a notary fee, etc... The big name will likely have the title premium, the insured closing protection letter, any endorsements, etc... As I said, you want to start with the smaller company. They were the agent and they actually closed the loan and issued insurance. You start with them. Plus, you are less likely to be lost in the shuffle with them.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-26-2017, 09:52 AM
 
3,268 posts, read 1,721,103 times
Reputation: 2773
There should be a law where developers are obligated to put fence as part of the construction, even if temporary, from the entire perimeter of each lot.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2017, 01:34 AM
 
6,121 posts, read 3,320,648 times
Reputation: 13007
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yippeekayay View Post
There should be a law where developers are obligated to put fence as part of the construction, even if temporary, from the entire perimeter of each lot.
Why?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-27-2017, 05:39 AM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,605 posts, read 55,320,924 times
Reputation: 30155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yippeekayay View Post
There should be a law where developers are obligated to put fence as part of the construction, even if temporary, from the entire perimeter of each lot.
I think buyers would revolt at the additional cost.
In many cases it would be in 5 figures.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top