Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Likely requires a signature, which is the conundrum.
Ah, yes, true, true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sand&Salt
Thanks, Clara. Our realtor says we need to sign off on the original title. So she must know what's needed. We could do the digital signature for the prior documents, but the closing docs need original signatures so we will have to print them, sign them, and send them off via Fed-Ex.
The $100 is a small price to pay to make sure this ball-and-chain property actually selling after 3 1/2 YEARS on the market. I know most of you are in a hot-hot sellers market, but some of us are stuck in BFE....(rural UT) so believe me, we are popping the champagne!
"Free, free at last!"
One other thought, might be useful should similar circumstances come up for someone - often a FAXed signed copy will be sufficient for legal purposes. Sometimes a signed, scanned and emailed copy will do. Should a notarization be required, that sometimes means the original originals, not a fax, must be sent. I don't know if any of those would have done in this case - but I've had other legal stuff going on when working overseas - and I did fax stuff, and I did scan and email the scanned copy.
Oh, and BTW, congrats on making the sale! I had a house like that once. Soooo happy when it sold!
You can say 'what you think' all you want....doens't make it true.
Giving someone authority to sign for you doesn't take away your right to make your own decisions. Or that the authority is carte blanche. A secretary can review documents with her boss over the phone while he is out traveling or on his/her way back from a meeting, boss tells secretary which documents she can sign and which ones to set aside for further review by the boss.
Likewise, OP can give their sister the okay to sign this form without giving sister the right to sign anything and everything.
I am pretty sure that in such a circumstance, where someone like a sec'y is signing, it has little legal standing, AND I do know that traditionally such signatures are supposed to be initialed by the signing party. E.g. if the sec'y is named Tom Jones, and the boss is Mariah Carey, he signs M Carey, and initials TJ.
Although it is not suitable for the OP's case, there are also circumstances where one party can sign for another, signing the party's name, and adding "by" with their printed name. Using the sames names as last example, Mariah Carey by Tom Jones.
Intent to defraud or not, I don't think it would be legally binding for someone else to sign a legal document such as those for a house sale - or checks. If the checks went through the system and got paid, it would more likely be because nobody in the banking system was paying attention to the signatures.
This is perfectly clear-cut to me, but DH is dug into the concept that "if there is no intent to defraud" then forgery is OK. We've had this discussion many times and I cannot believe he thinks this.
Example: we need to sign off on our mobile home title to sell the property. For some reason, the title is at my sister's in TX. We are in Ecuador. Mail is impossible here, but there is Fed-Ex for about $100.
DH says my sister should sign for us, as there "is no intent to defraud". I call that CRAZY. Forgery is forgery, and my sister would never do it anyway. Nor would I.
He also thought she could sign some blank checks we left with her----huh?
The only way that could work is if someone had POA.
We right 2 checks every month (rent & daycare)... The primary checking account is mine but my wife will fill it out and sign on my behalf when I'm not there. There is no intent to defraud and it's signed or 'forged' out of convenience to pay on time.
This is perfectly clear-cut to me, but DH is dug into the concept that "if there is no intent to defraud" then forgery is OK. We've had this discussion many times and I cannot believe he thinks this.
Example: we need to sign off on our mobile home title to sell the property. For some reason, the title is at my sister's in TX. We are in Ecuador. Mail is impossible here, but there is Fed-Ex for about $100.
DH says my sister should sign for us, as there "is no intent to defraud". I call that CRAZY. Forgery is forgery, and my sister would never do it anyway. Nor would I.
He also thought she could sign some blank checks we left with her----huh?
The only way that could work is if someone had POA.
It's not only unethical -- it's illegal. You spell that kind of illegal F-R-A-U-D.
This is perfectly clear-cut to me, but DH is dug into the concept that "if there is no intent to defraud" then forgery is OK. We've had this discussion many times and I cannot believe he thinks this.
Example: we need to sign off on our mobile home title to sell the property. For some reason, the title is at my sister's in TX. We are in Ecuador. Mail is impossible here, but there is Fed-Ex for about $100.
DH says my sister should sign for us, as there "is no intent to defraud". I call that CRAZY. Forgery is forgery, and my sister would never do it anyway. Nor would I.
He also thought she could sign some blank checks we left with her----huh?
The only way that could work is if someone had POA.
It depends.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ClaraC
Your husband is right - the crime of forgery requires intent to deceive.
On the other hand, it's likely you won't be committing a crime by having your sister sign for you, but the document won't be accepted. Which is a different thing.
I think you need to have a discussion with whoever is going to be receiving these documents - a title company, a bank, whatever, and find out what to do. Sometimes they allow for an "electronic" signature, or for your sister to sign your name and underneath write sign by and her name.
Very close.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cliffie
It's not only unethical -- it's illegal. You spell that kind of illegal F-R-A-U-D.
Nope. At least, probably not.
Short version: you've got to check the law in relevant jurisdictions. In some States, someone else can sign for you if you have given permission. That does not mean that a Title company, insurance company, or bank will necessarily accept it. Your presence in a foreign country could, potentially, complicate matters.
For $100, go about this the right way so the sale goes through and there aren't any title issues. All this over $100? Seriously.
Yes, I agree. This was more to settle an argument with my husband.
It's more not wanting to put my sister to the hassle of going to Fed-Ex, as she already does so much for us. If there was an easier way....
Here's the latest from my realtor:
You are transferring ownership with the State of Utah on an expensive asset. It will need to be your original signature. Is there anyway to have it sent to you via FedEx?
One other thought, might be useful should similar circumstances come up for someone - often a FAXed signed copy will be sufficient for legal purposes. Sometimes a signed, scanned and emailed copy will do. Should a notarization be required, that sometimes means the original originals, not a fax, must be sent. I don't know if any of those would have done in this case - but I've had other legal stuff going on when working overseas - and I did fax stuff, and I did scan and email the scanned copy.
Oh, and BTW, congrats on making the sale! I had a house like that once. Soooo happy when it sold!
MANY THANKS! LONG time coming. 3 realtors....
As far as POA, that would also entail an original signature which is the "problem".
We will have to sign originals for the closing documents on the land itself....BUT, they can be emailed, printed out, then Fed-Ex'd back.
Still, I'm not gonna really believe this until closing. And after all this, the "buyer" is our neighbor, LOL.
It's a mobile home it may have a hitch unless it was removed.
LOL. I knew it would irresistible to make mobile home jokes! The hitch is still on it---under our custom deck. It's OK, I made all those jokes too, back in the day. Until I lived in one. But on 5 gorgeous acres with postcard views, is different than some mobile home park....
Nice to be mortgage-free, lots of disposable cash for vacations, etc. There's an upside....
And yes, we can use a local notary, whew!
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
