Home inspector commentary on report (percentage, lawsuit, legal advice, repairs)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
In an FHA appraisal, the appraiser can request a copy of the home inspection before completing the report (or at least they use to be able to). I wonder how HUD would handle a cry of copyright infringement?
I have never (in over 30 years) have come across copyright being an issue. So, what about appraisals? I am curious as to the opinion regarding copyright and sharing (just because).
Good morning. I will say that some here have a special talent for finding THE most boring topics in Real Estate to go on and on about...
I'll see if I can find something interesting about it... ~sip~
On the subject of copyright, and comparisons to music and photography... It's a new world out there, this electronic age... and industries have been and will continue to be forced to adapt to the change or die. Remember when people thought VCRs would destroy the TV and movie industries? Copies are no longer able to be controlled. Period.
As a practical matter, creators of content who have come to terms with this new world have actually found they make MORE money from their content being copied everywhere.... Not less. Where content creators get upset is when people edit, parse, quote or forward the content as their own. Where the photographer, Ralph, on the prior page, is smart to not get all upset about his pictures being shared all over facebook... he probably WOULD become very upset if someone tried to forward and share the work as their own. That's a whole nuther story! I have a good friend who is a photographer and she considers her finished product as much art as if it were a painting. She's spent hours editing and adding effects to it. It is NOT the snapshot she started with. She knows her work will get shared around, and she's mostly OK with it, as long as the watermark survives and they don't re-edit it. If they edit or crop it and turn it into something else and THEN share it, or share it as their own work... that is when she starts getting upset and talking about copyright. Writers too, when quoted, want to be credited, they don't want you to take their work, copy just a part, or change a few things, and claim it as your own.
Oddly enough, the act of editing and only forwarding portions of an inspector's work without credit is actually what an Inspection Report is created to do. Newer web applications are actually making this easier, in that they are designed to grab screenshots of just part of the report, to be attached to a repair request and sent to the seller. And the inspector is NEVER named or credited in those excerpts. And the inspector knows this, when he gives the report. Copying, editing, and forwarding parts of it to someone else is, in fact, one of the primary intended uses of the product.
But... I am not a lawyer, I have never parsed copyright law any more than I have just done here... Still... I'm pretty confident none of the things I do with inspection reports as part of my business will ever become a critical part of any federal case. At least I hope not. Your mileage may vary.
Last edited by Diana Holbrook; 01-04-2018 at 07:31 AM..
Good morning. I will say that some here have a special talent for finding THE most boring topics in Real Estate to go on and on about...
I'll see if I can find something interesting about it... ~sip~
On the subject of copyright, and comparisons to music and photography... It's a new world out there, this electronic age... and industries have been and will continue to be forced to adapt to the change or die. Remember when people thought VCRs would destroy the TV and movie industries? Copies are no longer able to be controlled. Period.
As a practical matter, creators of content who have come to terms with this new world have actually found they make MORE money from their content being copied everywhere.... Not less. Where content creators get upset is when people edit, parse, quote or forward the content as their own. Where the photographer, Ralph, on the prior page, is smart to not get all upset about his pictures being shared all over facebook... he probably WOULD become very upset if someone tried to forward and share the work as their own. That's a whole nuther story! I have a good friend who is a photographer and she considers her finished product as much art as if it were a painting. She's spent hours editing and adding effects to it. It is NOT the snapshot she started with. She knows her work will get shared around, and she's mostly OK with it, as long as the watermark survives and they don't re-edit it. If they edit or crop it and turn it into something else and THEN share it, or share it as their own work... that is when she starts getting upset and talking about copyright. Writers too, when quoted, want to be credited, they don't want you to take their work, copy just a part, or change a few things, and claim it as your own.
Oddly enough, the act of editing and only forwarding portions of an inspector's work without credit is actually what an Inspection Report is created to do. Newer web applications are actually making this easier, in that they are designed to grab screenshots of just part of the report, to be attached to a repair request and sent to the seller. And the inspector is NEVER named or credited in those excerpts. And the inspector knows this, when he gives the report. Copying, editing, and forwarding to someone else is, in fact, one of the primary intended uses of the product.
I am not a lawyer, I have never parsed copyright law any more than I have just done here... but I'm pretty confident none of the things I do with inspection reports as part of my business will ever become a critical part of any federal case. At least I hope not. Your mileage may vary.
None of this changes the very simple fact that if something has a copyright owned by someone else, it's probably against the law to copy and distribute it to someone else without explicit permission.
If an author intends a consumer of his work to copy it, edit it and distribute it, he will give the consumer permission to do so.
We already covered the silly excuse - "well I think it's in the author's best interest for me to infringe his copyright - it will be good marketing for him!". It smells no better with you articulating it than it did from the others (ok, everything is slightly nicer with you ).
You're probably correct that nothing that you do with inspection reports will land you in a federal case or a federal prison. However, that does not change the fact that if you are copying and redistributing materials under copyright with no permission to do so, you are very likely violating the law and generally recognized codes of professional conduct in any industry. You are also disrespecting the work of fellow real estate professionals. If you can understand this and still wish to operate like this, then that's your choice to make. I do think that professionals should be mindful of their conduct and hold it to a higher standard than if, for example, they copy and share the odd MP3, etc. in their private life.
It's not a big deal to seek permission to copy someone's work. You may find that this is very easy if the inspector does not care about people copying and handing out his work. In fact, if you ask a few times, he may adapt his copyright clauses to align with your needs and his intended permissions. Everyone wins and nobody violates laws or ethics. Easy solution.
By the way, a few years ago I was involved in a purchase that fell through. I later got a call from the seller's agent asking me if I wanted to sell my inspection report - presumably seller and new buyer wanted to both save time and money. obviously I was out of pocket for all the expense (as well as lawyers fees, etc) so happy to recoup what I could. However, I immediately said no for the reason that i was expressly prohibited from sharing the report (not just copying it). So my money is where my mouth is. And I'm just a consumer, not a real estate professional.
Last edited by just_because; 01-04-2018 at 08:08 AM..
In an FHA appraisal, the appraiser can request a copy of the home inspection before completing the report (or at least they use to be able to). I wonder how HUD would handle a cry of copyright infringement?
I have never (in over 30 years) have come across copyright being an issue. So, what about appraisals? I am curious as to the opinion regarding copyright and sharing (just because).
Easy, seek permission from the copyright owner to copy and forward his work. Or hire an inspector who will give you permission to copy and provide it to a third party. Or provide the original to the appraiser without copying it (IF you are not otherwise prohibited from doing so). Some inspection reports will also have requirements that they are not shared at all (this is beyond regular copyright protection). It's not rocket science, just get permission to do whatever you need to do with someone else's IP. Not addressing this and just doing as you wish is not how professionals operate.
J_B if I called up an inspector and asked for his express permission to forward his report, all or in part, to the seller (through his agent), there would be a long pause while he tried to figure out how to politely ask me if I'm losing my marbles.
It's the intended purpose of the document.... Or one of them... depending on other considerations in the deal. They don't need to change their copyright clauses for ME. It might be your first time dealing with this very interesting (?) dilemma, but it's not ours.
Good day! I hope you can find many more ways to entertain yourself today.
J_B if I called up an inspector and asked for his express permission to forward his report, all or in part, to the seller (through his agent), there would be a long pause while he tried to figure out how to politely ask me if I'm losing my marbles.
He'd wonder if you intend to do something other than that, something he probably doesn't want you to do.
J_B if I called up an inspector and asked for his express permission to forward his report, all or in part, to the seller (through his agent), there would be a long pause while he tried to figure out how to politely ask me if I'm losing my marbles.
It's the intended purpose of the document.... Or one of them... depending on other considerations in the deal. They don't need to change their copyright clauses for ME. It might be your first time dealing with this very interesting (?) dilemma, but it's not ours.
Good day! I hope you can find many more ways to entertain yourself today.
I get it. I'm not stupid. If the industry is sloppy about these things then that's a bad thing, not a good thing.
I did not suggest that he would change his copyright notice just for you. I assume that your needs are similar to the needs of others.
But where you do stop? one agent earlier on this thread said that he/she thinks it's ok to copy and give to the seller but not to a new buyer if a deal falls through. Mike said that he copies gives it to new buyers all the time. So clearly there are different thresholds and some level of confusion over what is "right and wrong" (it's all probably illegal so I mean their own sense of right and wrong). In my case, if i sold my report to the new buyer after my deal fell through, do you think that's OK - legally, morally, ethically? You either respect copyright or you don't. If you don't think it would have been OK for me to sell it on, why would that not be OK but other cases are? Would it make a difference in your world if I gave it away but did not sell it? Copyright law does not differentiate between any of these situations - they are all illegal. So how can different 'rules' be applied selectively?
By the way, this is a serious question and i would like to know your opinion. Part of my feels like a chump for not selling it on but overall, it just didn't feel right to infringe on IP like that. I've worked in fields where there are massive efforts to respect the IP of others and infringement is taken very seriously - both as a legal risk but also as a part of professional ethics.
In my case, if i sold my report to the new buyer after my deal fell through, do you think that's OK - legally, morally, ethically? You either respect copyright or you don't. If you don't think it would have been OK for me to sell it on, why would that not be OK but other cases are? Would it make a difference in your world if I gave it away but did not sell it? Copyright law does not differentiate between any of these situations - they are all illegal. So how can different 'rules' be applied selectively?
You moved the goalposts.
You probably thought we wouldn't notice.
As a content creator, I've already pointed out when I'd not mind my work being shared, and thanks to Diana Holbrook for pointing out when I would.
I doubt there are any home inspectors who are under the illusion that their clients are not sharing their reports in order to gain price concessions or repairs.
I also doubt there are any home inspectors who are actually registering their reports with the Copyright Office, which is necessary in order to gain anything more than demonstrable losses.
One thing I do think is true, even though I am in possession of the document, and I'm the one who edits and copies it and sends it to the seller... I don't own it... the buyer does. Everything I do with it, I do with the permission of the buyer.
The buyer can do what they like with it... including sell it.
You can sell used books J_B. It's essentially a used book.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
).
