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Old 01-12-2018, 05:29 PM
 
9,868 posts, read 7,650,602 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post

Shopping by price can be setting a trap for yourself. In my market, too many buyers go for flash at the lowest $$$/SF, and end up with a lipsticked piggy.
Finishes are just skin-deep in the search for quality. But, too many buyers consider glitz and flash to indicate quality.
I would rather have formica countertops with drop-in sinks and sheet vinyl flooring in a house with framing members and methods that exceed code requirements significantly than granite and faux hardwoods in a house with 24" O. C. floor joists at maximum calculated spans.
I want durability.
The structure will be more durable in the first, assuming equivalent workmanship. And over-framing will be more forgiving of minor errors than minimal framing with the same errors. Durability from good framing means that there will be less nuisance cracking in sheetrock, fewer doors that bind, better operation of windows, all due to less racking and movement of the house.

Walking through a pimped out finished model only scratches the surface in a quest for quality building.
When I have a client tell me they would like to consider Mega-National-Publicly-Traded-Production-LoveShack-Builders in Mildew Downs or Local-Quality-Custom-Builders in Cadillac Heights, I try to walk through several homes under construction in various phases.
I want to see the foundation, how they frame, how many gigs the production supers mark up in framing, how many times the city inspectors fail them on framing inspections.
I have seen good custom builders with only a handful of markups, and with city inspectors passing them on the first go round.

If you don't know much about construction, you may want to engage a buyer's agent with "dirty shoes" new construction experience. Take a couple for a test drive onsite and see what they can tell you.
I sold a listing a while back, and the buyer's agent, and I am not making this up, did not know what a "2x4" was. I don't know how she could be licenses, let alone guiding buyers.
Those sentences get to the heart of what constitutes quality. Finishes can be replaced. They are relatively superficial. This is like buying a car based on what bells and whistles come with it, instead of actual BUILD QUALITY and adequacy of frame (or body), transmission, suspension, and engine for the intended uses.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:54 AM
 
1,663 posts, read 1,571,213 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
I guess homes are not really the same as cars, but don't older homes require more maintenance?
Not necessarily. It all depends on what upkeep/upgrades have occurred over the lifespan of the home.

Personally, I’ve found that pre-70’s homes are usually horribly inefficient, unless windows and insulation have been replaced. Also, layouts can be very boxy and choppy, as building materials and engineering have evolved over time.

One thing I like to do when inspecting build quality is to get in the attic and look at the lumber quality and workmanship involved in the trusses, etc. half-azzed cuts, weird sistered braces, janky looking beams all point to the same quality being underneath the drywall below.
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Old 01-13-2018, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Bloomington IN
8,590 posts, read 12,288,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
I guess homes are not really the same as cars, but don't older homes require more maintenance?
All houses require maintenance. What needs to be maintained will differ based on age a bit. Even if an older house requires a bit more maintenance, the newer, cheaply built house will require stuff as things wear out.
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Old 01-14-2018, 05:52 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
13,441 posts, read 15,411,159 times
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You don't *have* to purchase an older house to get good quality. Not every old house is a gem. As for "fake mouldings", I see no issue with using MDF mouldings etc. That's the one thing where using solid wood is not a big deal at all. At least MDF doesn't warp or cup.

I hate to say this, every house is going to have issues of some sort. I'm not a fan of new construction but that doesn't mean that all new construction is crap. You buy the best that you can afford. If you don't have a big budget, you'll just have to deal with what you have, upgrade to your own liking as you go along.
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Old 01-15-2018, 08:29 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,707 posts, read 79,581,771 times
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Buy a home built before 1960. You have much better odds of getting decent build quality. While not every older home is a gem, no newer homes are built with an eye toward quality, except for a very few custom homes. Even then, quality materials are simply no longer available. However if you get a home framed in steel instead of wood, you can do pretty well quality wise.

Stay away form mass produced/subdivision homes.

Find homes that cost a lot for a small house when new. Figure a well built home will cost 300% of a mass produced chintzy home of the same size.

Build your own home, and supervise the design and construction work or hire someone who really understands quality to supervise it for you. For this path, figure on 600% of the cost of a mass produced home - to you will be going small.

"But I want a bigger home with quality build" Well then come up with several million to spend.
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Old 01-15-2018, 10:53 AM
 
6,675 posts, read 4,256,974 times
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Great information here. I’m someone who knows nothing about construction. What are some questions to ask if you’re looking at new construction?

Also, I’ve heard that any builder can be good or bad. It depends on the crew working that specific house and/or the supervisor over the crews. Is there anyone in particular I should talk to before committing to buying?

Last edited by Mike930; 01-15-2018 at 11:03 AM..
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Old 01-15-2018, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Round Rock, Texas
13,441 posts, read 15,411,159 times
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So many generalizations here. Our home is custom, built in a subdivision of similar homes. It was built in 1989. Almost thirty years old, the studs of the home are pristine. It's held up over the years and will likely hold up for many more years. Just because it isn't old, or built after 1960, or built in a subdivision doesn't make the quality crap. Again, folks, make sure you have an agent experienced with new construction or a buddy in the know, and yes any builder can build quality or crap at any price point. Make sure you visit the site often. Our first home was built by a national mass builder and it actually wasn't that bad according to inspectors despite finding beer bottles throughout the site and things jury rigged. But in terms of nuts holds and everything else thehome was an 8/10.
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Old 01-15-2018, 01:57 PM
Status: "Made the Retirement Run in under 12 parsecs!!!" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Cary, NC
43,176 posts, read 76,815,786 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riaelise View Post
So many generalizations here. Our home is custom, built in a subdivision of similar homes. It was built in 1989. Almost thirty years old, the studs of the home are pristine. It's held up over the years and will likely hold up for many more years. Just because it isn't old, or built after 1960, or built in a subdivision doesn't make the quality crap. Again, folks, make sure you have an agent experienced with new construction or a buddy in the know, and yes any builder can build quality or crap at any price point. Make sure you visit the site often. Our first home was built by a national mass builder and it actually wasn't that bad according to inspectors despite finding beer bottles throughout the site and things jury rigged. But in terms of nuts holds and everything else thehome was an 8/10.
Yes, there are generalizations.

You buy houses "One by One." One of the knocks on tract/production builders is inconsistency. That is a two-edged sword.
They may turn out a good one, a few stinkers, and a cluster of the middling in-between.

And, a custom builder can have a bad day.

A very well maintained house of any age and pedigree will show better than the same product next door that has been neglected and/or abused.
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Old 01-15-2018, 04:29 PM
 
9,891 posts, read 11,721,623 times
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Some posters are saying buy homes built before 1970 and you will have good construction. Not a real test as mas production started in he 1940s, building tract home for returning G.I.s. And just because they are older homes from 100 years ago, does not mean they are great homes to buy.

Newer homes, are built to different standards than they built to 75 years ago, back before real tract home building. And over the last 75 years, homes are built to a different standard.

Those great homes people think they built in the 1950s when we bought our first home were not as strongly built as they build today. They were not built to be energy efficient. They had single pane windows that just leaked heat as fast as you could generate it. Little or no insulation.

Today the decision to space the two surfaces of a wall, may require a 5.5 inch space, or a 3.5 inch distance between the inner and outer walls depending on the amount of insulation needed to to weather conditions. Remember 2x4 studs are only 1.5 and 3.5 not 2X4 as the 2/4 measurement is before going through the planner, and the other is after planing the lumber to make it nice and smooth as people expect.

It is amazing how some of the posters think one thing is the only way to go, and do not take into consideration that spacing of roof trusses as an example, changes depending on the total span, projected roof loads caused by snow in snow areas, and desert areas will have wider spacing, which will not exceed 24 inches. Yes, the local building code, may require closer stud spacing, based on projected future snow loads, and other areas will have more space between trusses, as the roof load will be different for one vs. the other depending on projected min/max snow loads.

Because the standard is one standard in one area, and different in another does not mean the wider spacing is bad, and the closer good, and will differ as the local conditions require.

Some want trusses, for the roof, and others want roof supports to be built on site. In most cases the best roofs, will be the ones built with engineered trusses, and not only is better but is also cheaper. They are built uniform, and stronger than those built on site, which will not be as true in shape, and will not give the same strength for the roof.

The way homes are built today, differ from how they were built in the past, and the new construction overall will be a stronger home for durability, better insulated, etc. The big difference between a mass produced, and a custom built home, is the looks and finish. The majority of the people cannot afford a true custom built home, and would not be able to afford to buy a home of a certain size, and location. Another $50,000 or $100,000 or often way more for prettier looks and trim, is not in their budget, and the mortgage company would not make them a loan for the full custom built home in the same neighborhood. Plus the tract home by a decent builder will appreciate at a faster rate, than the custom home in the same area of town, will never appraise as much because the fanciest home in a neighborhood, will no where near appraise enough higher than a tract home in the same neighborhood, to recover the higher building costs.

I shudder when I think that homes in my old neighborhoods back in the 1950s, and 1960s, that cost less than $25,000 new, are now selling for $1,250,000 and up. And they were typical tract homes. And I can assure you, that they were not as well built as they are today. Not as strong under the skin, and not energy efficient.
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Old 01-17-2018, 03:42 PM
 
2,818 posts, read 1,544,746 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GoodHombre View Post
I guess homes are not really the same as cars, but don't older homes require more maintenance?
Not at all. All homes require maintenance. A contractor once told me that he had just had to replace the exterior wall of a 5-year-old house, due to poor construction, and that he would take an old home over a newer one any day, given the shoddy construction of most new homes. Which is not to say that all new homes are poorly built. It's just that most new subdivision homes will not stand the test of a century's worth of time. I've lived in new and old, and we now live in a home built in 1915. The walls are so thick that you can't hear someone in the next room. The doors are made of solid wood, and they and the wood framing come from wood sourced from old growth forests, the quality of which simply doesn't exist any longer. The masonry was completed by artisans, mostly from Italy. It's not an expensive house, but it's unbelievably solid, even after 100 years. But, like any house, the roof needed replacement after a certain point, gutters need to be regularly cleaned, basement needed waterproofing, soffits needed repair/replacement, and masonry needed some touch-up. Just as much maintenance as a new house, but a whole lot better quality of materials, not to mention authentic character, with regard to moldings, etc.
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