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Old 01-17-2018, 12:42 PM
 
6,098 posts, read 2,505,636 times
Reputation: 3883

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePRU View Post
I never said it qualified as slander or libel. I was merely giving an exaggerated example of another wrong doing and trying to excuse it by saying it was only for entertainment purposes. Thanks for trying to steer the conversation away from the issue at hand though.



Those that don't know and don't understand what Zillow is (in my experience) are absolutely influenced by Zillow. Educating my clients is part of my job and this is often a topic I need to address.



Who cares? That's not the point at all. The mere fact that it's wildly inaccurate is all I need to know to say that it's irresponsible and should be removed from their site. I'm not interested in putting my tinfoil hat on and trying to figure out the nature of the conspiracy. It's not germane to the conversation at hand.



Again, not relevant to the conversation. Your lack of empathy and the current level of affordability has nothing to do with whether or not it's responsible for Zillow to float inaccurate information in the guise of an appraisal.



If it's wrong someone is going to get upset. Buyers get angry too when they think their house (which they just purchased) is being appraised for less than they paid. Again, who is being harmed is not really relevant. The fact that someone is being harmed is enough to say that Zillow should take it down. Your lack of empathy for sellers is not a factor in this discussion.



I've always felt True Car is a sham. Where are they getting these sales numbers from? It's not like they're public record like a home sale (at least in some states real estate sale price is). I figured they had to be in bed with the car dealers.



I'm beginning to wonder if you are serious.



Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. This is not remotely "the bottom line." What does this have to do with anything in the article? Your anger about current real estate values has no bearing on whether Zillow's information is accurate or not and whether sharing this information is a responsible action.



I don't even think you're on the right planet.



It absolutely is nonsense. Unfortunately, we're having a conversation about the relation of the ridiculously inaccurate Zillow appraisal in comparison to the home's market value. If your analogy was about someone thinking about buying a truck worth $20K and True Car had $100K listed as a great sale price for the truck then we're talking the same language.



Just because you as one person think it should be worth less does not make you correct either. As a single person, sellers are wrong about market value and buyers are wrong about market value all the time. As I said earlier, market value is about the "common man" test and it sounds like you may be a statistical outlier.



Again, it's not about who is harmed. The fact that someone is harmed is enough for me. You're clearly obsessed about affordability which is an entirely different conversation.



So . . . your whole point is you want Zillow to inaccurately report their Zestimate on the low side (they come out too high plenty of the time as well BTW) in order to affect the market negatively so that you can afford a house?

I think I'll let Mike J handle it from here. He enjoys trying to reason with unreasonable people much more than I do.
Someone has to be harmed for there to be a valid law suit and that harm has to be built on non subjective data. Your right as a single person I don't set the market, but if a zestimate takes over the hearts and minds of many then suddenly perhaps that is now what your house is worth because that's all people are now willing to pay and THAT is the issue of this whole thing. The "market value" of your house is based on what people are willing to pay in a local area (car prices are national because its a movable asset), so if a site such as Zillow can get inside a large number of peoples heads it can actually sway the market.


Its basicly like a large town hall meeting of someone saying hey this property is worth X and then all the prospective buyers say ... yea I always thought these prices were steep, im not paying that.


The anger stems from the fact that Zillow can reach ALOT of people and actually manipulate the market and I don't see that as a bad thing because typically the people had to have it in the back of their mind that they didn't want to pay that much anyways and were just bullied into it by realtors and sellers stone walling them.


This whole thing is phycological. And if an entity can reach enough people to shift that phycology then you have butt hurt people. Of course I would be upset if I over paid for something but its not grounds for a law suit.
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:02 PM
 
Location: The Greater Booger Branch Area
138 posts, read 99,563 times
Reputation: 292
I'm not in the real estate business, but my observation is that Zillow does not differentiate between water front and non-waterfront properties, at least in the case of one of my properties. In other words, they are low-balling waterfront homes by using non-waterfront homes across the street as comparables.
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Old 01-17-2018, 04:13 PM
 
6,098 posts, read 2,505,636 times
Reputation: 3883
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger Branch Betty View Post
I'm not in the real estate business, but my observation is that Zillow does not differentiate between water front and non-waterfront properties, at least in the case of one of my properties. In other words, they are low-balling waterfront homes by using non-waterfront homes across the street as comparables.
But you are not going to butt hurt by the zestimate because you know that your property has a unique feature that people are willing to pay for. So you wont file a law suit.


People up in arms are likely people that know deep down that their house is now worth what they think it is and others also don't think so. They rely on "market" hype, that is "hot" and you better get in now before prices keep rising etc.


I would wager money that the people upset are not on properties perched up on a hill with a mt view or on a large lake where you can fish and jet ski or on a lone piece of private property in the middle of a university etc. Its likely a run of the mill housing development.
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Old 01-17-2018, 05:16 PM
 
1,528 posts, read 728,653 times
Reputation: 2062
I am somewhat sympathetic to the view of Mike and others that these automated valuations are misinformation that can be harmful to consumers.

As an enemy of misinformation, I respectfully ask Mike and others why they are so apparently apathetic to the epidemic of misinformation on this board given by realtors posting in their professional capacity.

Surely it would be easier and more effective to just speak out against misinformation like "your policy will cover you" when the realtor didn't even see the policy and is not qualified to advise on insurance matters. Or when agents give legal and financial advice that is usually very wrong and reckless. Or the very common misleading, wrong, irresponsible and unprofessional advice given by some professionals on this board. Choose your battles and I suggest you start closer to home if you truly care about misleading consumers.
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Old 01-17-2018, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,647 posts, read 55,374,605 times
Reputation: 30193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Booger Branch Betty View Post
I'm not in the real estate business, but my observation is that Zillow does not differentiate between water front and non-waterfront properties, at least in the case of one of my properties. In other words, they are low-balling waterfront homes by using non-waterfront homes across the street as comparables.
When you think of it, what incentive is there for Zillow to be accurate at this point?
They have managed to get traffic to the site with no concerns about the accuracy of the Zestimate so far.

It's actually a pretty slick deal :
Publish clearly inaccurate pop appraisals without ownership permission.
Refuse to improve them unless the owner "claims" a property to which they already hold legal title.
So, the owner "claims" the property by giving up personal identity and information and is swept into Z's database to be tracked and pestered.
For free. Very low acquisition costs to collect personal information to mine.

For example, they count 1.5 baths in my 2.5 bath house.
It's a number they cooked up.
There's no record anywhere with a 1.5 bathroom count, except for Zillow.
And, they may "fix" it if I give them my ID., and ask nicely.

It's genius.
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Old 01-17-2018, 05:38 PM
 
6,098 posts, read 2,505,636 times
Reputation: 3883
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
When you think of it, what incentive is there for Zillow to be accurate at this point?
They have managed to get traffic to the site with no concerns about the accuracy of the Zestimate so far.

It's actually a pretty slick deal :
Publish clearly inaccurate pop appraisals without ownership permission.
Refuse to improve them unless the owner "claims" a property to which they already hold legal title.
So, the owner "claims" the property by giving up personal identity and information and is swept into Z's database to be tracked and pestered.
For free. Very low acquisition costs to collect personal information to mine.

For example, they count 1.5 baths in my 2.5 bath house.
It's a number they cooked up.
There's no record anywhere with a 1.5 bathroom count, except for Zillow.
And, they may "fix" it if I give them my ID., and ask nicely.

It's genius.
I agree, they played the game and are winning and realtors are mad. I wish I would have thought of it.
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Old 01-17-2018, 06:12 PM
 
5,682 posts, read 7,272,878 times
Reputation: 3198
I was intrigued by the lawsuit, but in reading the article, (and I'm not a lawyer) but it seems Zillow probably has a pretty good defense. They're not "deleting" zestimates, just showing some more prominently then others. Sneaky sure, but illegal? Eh, I guess that's for a jury to potentially decide.
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Old 01-17-2018, 06:34 PM
 
Location: TX and NM on the border of the Great Southwest.
11,792 posts, read 15,811,340 times
Reputation: 22478
Zillow has my +2100 sq ft house at 620 sq. ft.

Now that's real professionalism.
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Old 01-17-2018, 06:37 PM
 
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
3,488 posts, read 1,796,291 times
Reputation: 9683
My house is still an undeveloped lot.

It's been a year since it was built.
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Old 01-17-2018, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,647 posts, read 55,374,605 times
Reputation: 30193
Quote:
Originally Posted by GoPhils View Post
I was intrigued by the lawsuit, but in reading the article, (and I'm not a lawyer) but it seems Zillow probably has a pretty good defense. They're not "deleting" zestimates, just showing some more prominently then others. Sneaky sure, but illegal? Eh, I guess that's for a jury to potentially decide.
It really points out another facet to Z's lack of ethics.

Transparency would seem to require equal presentation of data without favoritism.

Of course, calling pop appraisals "data" is a huge stretch.
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