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Old 01-25-2018, 09:30 PM
 
Location: Needham, MA
6,324 posts, read 9,026,282 times
Reputation: 5324

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Quote:
Originally Posted by I love boots. View Post
Why don't I have a case?
If the offer the other agent wrote is accepted and they lead the buyer through an unbroken chain of events to the closing, then my opinion is that a grievance board will side with the other agent.

If nothing has been signed yet, then I would have my broker call the other agent's broker and try to work something out. If you wait until the offer is executed and take it up with the other side in the middle of the transaction then you may find yourself in front of a grievance board.
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:36 AM
 
1,528 posts, read 725,070 times
Reputation: 2062
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
I'll weigh in on this.

This is very clear and consumers should understand that their buyer's agent is paid based upon a uninterrupted march toward getting the papers signed. This article is very clear that the agency relationship with the client (i.e. looking after the buyer's interests) is irrelevant in any test of whether the agent has earned his money. The only thing that matters in this test of whether the agent earned his commission is the buyer's agent marching the buyer toward the signature without interruption.

There is no controversy with this. The NAR is clear that the buyer's agent works in cooperation with the seller's agent so this just underscores that purpose. If the main purpose of the buyer's agent is to look after and protect the interests of the buyer, then why is that irrelevant to the question of whether the buyer's agent earned his pay? (rhetorical question)
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Old 01-26-2018, 02:59 AM
 
1,528 posts, read 725,070 times
Reputation: 2062
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
Yeah, I do.

I don't squabble about commissions. It NEVER elevates agents in the eyes of consumers.

Another platitude :
Talk to your broker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikePRU View Post
Let me just start by saying this is a really cruddy situation. Those buyers and this agent have both treated you very unfairly. I don't understand why some people refuse to treat agents with even a modicum of decency. If they didn't want you to represent them, then they should have had the decency to tell you that they'd like to change representation.
I agree with Mike J (yes it's true). The perception is very unsavory when squabbling occurs and the client is in the middle of it. We all know that 'territory' is a real issue in sales and it's easy just to say that none of this should matter but sales in any industry is very competitive and your lunch will be eaten if you don't look out for yourself. However, this does not change the fact that it is very unsavory to clients.

If I understand this situation, Boots is already getting paid on the listing side. The model is the model and it's only logical from a clients perspective that they seek their own representation. The perception (right or wrong) is that this is free to the buyer. Why would the buyer wish to proceed with a dual agency arrangement ('dual representation' effectively means 'no representation'). For the same money they can have their own agent.

To MikeP's point, I agree that agents should be treated fairly by clients and they should be open, honest, transparent. However, we should be careful blaming the client. if someone is not in sales, they often don't think about commissions, territories, etc. They don't really understand it or give it any thought. And I would doubt that the other agent helped the client to understand the impact on Boots. So I think the client's action was very logical in seeking their own representation in the transaction (in fact, I would hope that any dual agent explains the benefit of this to the client and has an adult conversation about whether they would like to seek one). Sounds naive to everyone, i'm sure.
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Old 01-26-2018, 09:47 AM
 
Location: Athol, Idaho
2,182 posts, read 1,055,531 times
Reputation: 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_because View Post
I agree with Mike J (yes it's true). The perception is very unsavory when squabbling occurs and the client is in the middle of it. We all know that 'territory' is a real issue in sales and it's easy just to say that none of this should matter but sales in any industry is very competitive and your lunch will be eaten if you don't look out for yourself. However, this does not change the fact that it is very unsavory to clients.

If I understand this situation, Boots is already getting paid on the listing side. The model is the model and it's only logical from a clients perspective that they seek their own representation. The perception (right or wrong) is that this is free to the buyer. Why would the buyer wish to proceed with a dual agency arrangement ('dual representation' effectively means 'no representation'). For the same money they can have their own agent.

To MikeP's point, I agree that agents should be treated fairly by clients and they should be open, honest, transparent. However, we should be careful blaming the client. if someone is not in sales, they often don't think about commissions, territories, etc. They don't really understand it or give it any thought. And I would doubt that the other agent helped the client to understand the impact on Boots. So I think the client's action was very logical in seeking their own representation in the transaction (in fact, I would hope that any dual agent explains the benefit of this to the client and has an adult conversation about whether they would like to seek one). Sounds naive to everyone, i'm sure.
I don't blame these buyers. I blame this other agent and feel he should know better. What people need to understand is that no matter what has been signed anywhere it is never a good idea to try to force buyers to work with you. I wouldnt do that. He should have called and asked me the situation. They didn't tell him the whole truth and what he ended up doing is a violation because he didn't get all the facts first. I would have been fine with a referral fee.

There is a lot more to it and names have been changed to protect the innocent. He's screwing the whole deal up and handling things poorly in general. It's affecting the buyers in a negative way, they are currently in breach of contract because of their agent. I finally dawned on him what he did and he is sort of apologised to me while at the same time threatening in writing to hold the deal hostage. This issue is between he and I only, but he chooses to let it affect his clients negatively because he's worried about getting himself paid.
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Old 01-26-2018, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,594 posts, read 55,307,520 times
Reputation: 30150
Quote:
Originally Posted by I love boots. View Post
I don't blame these buyers. I blame this other agent and feel he should know better. What people need to understand is that no matter what has been signed anywhere it is never a good idea to try to force buyers to work with you. I wouldnt do that. He should have called and asked me the situation. They didn't tell him the whole truth and what he ended up doing is a violation because he didn't get all the facts first. I would have been fine with a referral fee.

There is a lot more to it and names have been changed to protect the innocent. He's screwing the whole deal up and handling things poorly in general. It's affecting the buyers in a negative way, they are currently in breach of contract because of their agent. I finally dawned on him what he did and he is sort of apologised to me while at the same time threatening in writing to hold the deal hostage. This issue is between he and I only, but he chooses to let it affect his clients negatively because he's worried about getting himself paid.
I would get it closed, pay him, get myself paid, all while taking care of my original clients, the sellers who entrusted marketing and selling their asset to me.

Kick the poop off yer boots and move forward.
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Athol, Idaho
2,182 posts, read 1,055,531 times
Reputation: 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
I would get it closed, pay him, get myself paid, all while taking care of my original clients, the sellers who entrusted marketing and selling their asset to me.

Kick the poop off yer boots and move forward.
He has asked me in two different emails to do something illegal. My broker is aware of it. I had to tell because its holding things up. You are right that all I can do is represent my sellers. And I am. They are happy and Im doing my best to not let buyer agent inneptitude ruin it for them. Doesn't it ever bother you just a little bit when you have to direct the other agent as well so much that you seem to have to do their job to get the deal done?
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:26 AM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,594 posts, read 55,307,520 times
Reputation: 30150
Quote:
Originally Posted by I love boots. View Post
He has asked me in two different emails to do something illegal. My broker is aware of it. I had to tell because its holding things up. You are right that all I can do is represent my sellers. And I am. They are happy and Im doing my best to not let buyer agent inneptitude ruin it for them. Doesn't it ever bother you just a little bit when you have to direct the other agent as well so much that you seem to have to do their job to get the deal done?
I have asked other brokers to fix up to 15 errors in their offers.
Doesn't really bother me too much.

Don't get me wrong. Your whole situation stinks, and the part that really sticks out to me is that you report he says you collected EMD from the buyer and have signed disclosures.
Yeah, I would give him one brief chance to fix that.

And, I have worked listings where the sellers just would not tolerate that level of behavior and would eat the house for another month, if needed, to not deal with the agent or buyer. Sellers of that sort can be great to work with.
You DID submit the offer, right? That had to be a fun conversation with the sellers.

This is when multiple offers are a blessing. "NEXT!"
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:31 AM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,741 posts, read 31,556,293 times
Reputation: 12105
Quote:
Originally Posted by I love boots. View Post
He has asked me in two different emails to do something illegal. My broker is aware of it. I had to tell because its holding things up. You are right that all I can do is represent my sellers. And I am. They are happy and Im doing my best to not let buyer agent inneptitude ruin it for them. Doesn't it ever bother you just a little bit when you have to direct the other agent as well so much that you seem to have to do their job to get the deal done?
In Oregon, it would be a no-brainer that you in no way shape or form are entitled to a referral fee or anything else. Procuring cause here is writing the offer and CLOSING the transaction. Nothing less than closing is considered procuring cause here because it if doesn't close, the chain of events was broken.

So, based on Oregon standards, the other agent was the procuring cause and you are entitled to nothing. Honestly, I don't know how you think you are the procuring cause without an executed contract. The chain broke right there.
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:41 AM
 
Location: Athol, Idaho
2,182 posts, read 1,055,531 times
Reputation: 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
I have asked other brokers to fix up to 15 errors in their offers.
Doesn't really bother me too much.

Don't get me wrong. Your whole situation stinks, and the part that really sticks out to me is that you report he says you collected EMD from the buyer and have signed disclosures.
Yeah, I would give him one brief chance to fix that.

And, I have worked listings where the sellers just would not tolerate that level of behavior and would eat the house for another month, if needed, to not deal with the agent or buyer. Sellers of that sort can be great to work with.
You DID submit the offer, right? That had to be a fun conversation with the sellers.

This is when multiple offers are a blessing. "NEXT!"
I had no problem doing so. It's my job. I have a responsibility to not let sellers get caught up in things that aren't their problem I think.
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Old 01-26-2018, 10:44 AM
 
Location: Athol, Idaho
2,182 posts, read 1,055,531 times
Reputation: 3184
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
In Oregon, it would be a no-brainer that you in no way shape or form are entitled to a referral fee or anything else. Procuring cause here is writing the offer and CLOSING the transaction. Nothing less than closing is considered procuring cause here because it if doesn't close, the chain of events was broken.

So, based on Oregon standards, the other agent was the procuring cause and you are entitled to nothing. Honestly, I don't know how you think you are the procuring cause without an executed contract. The chain broke right there.
Add that to the list of reasons that Im glad I don't live in Oregon
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