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Old 02-01-2018, 03:05 PM
 
Location: Living on the Coast in Oxnard CA
15,270 posts, read 24,653,169 times
Reputation: 19301

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Quote:
Originally Posted by adjusterjack View Post
DANGER, WILL ROBINSON!


Better check the "legal description" on your deed and make sure that the "legal description" covers both lots.


I had a similar situation with my first house. It straddled two lots at one address. The deed showed the right address but the "legal description" showed only one lot. The title insurance company had to go back to the sellers and get a corrected deed signed.
I had to learn about this. Yes, we are covered. People with the same problem as me are the home directly behind us and the home directly across the street. and so on. It has been this way since 1962 when the homes were built. My paperwork shows both legal lots. The house sits on both lots. In reality it is one lot, legally it is two separate lots. Each year the county sends me two property tax bills, one for each lot. That is the way it has always been and the way it will always be. I spoke with the Tax assessor and they explained it to me. Spoke with a few other people and they explained it to me.
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Old 02-01-2018, 03:28 PM
 
1,357 posts, read 676,756 times
Reputation: 966
But in this case..block lot is 46/35...but legal description says block 46 lot 35,36...then a reference to a map book...so perhaps they are just referencing a plat map of two lots. But, I did the whole block of 18 lots and came in at 3.55 acres...so as I stated .20..the thing is highly accurate. In most counties, this would have been easily resolved online. Details are a big part of integrity...whether it is just dumb or playing dumb...Some listing agents actually know how to sell homes...others want to list, lie, and get paid....I don't think the trustees will be to pleased...I do expect the agent to correct her ad, also. I don't need to invest there, or anyplace else..I had a Qatar Airways flight hostess looking at my condo a few weeks ago...she was damn near a 10. Met quite a few agents that are gorgeous...and they can draw maps and even architectural drawings..wall lengths are in MM. Restrictions on foreigner and ownership is the only problem..can't blame them, though.
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Old 02-01-2018, 04:23 PM
 
6,289 posts, read 6,799,486 times
Reputation: 10641
I think that most purchasers would be highly dissatisfied with an agent if all the agent did was use an online tool to estimate the lot size. Just sayin'.

But, as long as you're happy...
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Old 02-01-2018, 04:56 PM
 
7,902 posts, read 6,815,334 times
Reputation: 17058
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Roach View Post
But, wouldn't you expect a person, who may have lived for decades within a mile of the house to know? And rectangular city lots, with house barely 20 feet apart? And, when asked to verify, just regurgitated the same slop? People make mistakes, but when obvious stuff is brought to their attention, it is a good chance to show professionalism.
What the OP is doing, is going somewhere and finding that it says that the lot size differs from official county/city records or the latest survey. What he is not considering if the official legal description, includes area for sidewalk, which in some cities, belongs to the owner of he lot, right to the edge of the street, or if it starts at the in side of the sidewalk. There are so many variables you don't know.

Example, our lot is 5 acres. But we also own the county roadway according to the official plat map and legal survey by plat description, and there is a lane for a total of 4 houses and a 30 acre field. We also own that lane, and the county says they have the right to put a street 28 foot wide, to replace the lane and access properties in back of the 30 acre field. So actually we have 5 acres by the legal original description, but the county has the use of 30 feet along our border for a county road, and the rights to our lane, and a utility easement through our property. What the OP is talking about, may be if the home owners along that street, can include half the street width, and sidewalk being in the legal description, as total legal size of the lot. These will all be shown in the plat plan for the subdivision those lots are part of. The legal description can include more than the actual usable lot size. The Realtor is using the lot size from official records and survey, but when the parts that the city has easements over such as sidewalk etc, will be smaller.

The Realtor has no right to show the size of the lot from some site like the OP has brought up, as it is not the official legal size which includes those other parts. All the Realtor can use is the size from the legal description, and survey which should be the same.

The home owner may actually own the sidewalk etc., right up to the street, has to maintain the sidewalk, keep it clear of ice and snow, and repaired, but his usable lot is smaller as the OP is finding. Depends on how the city/county legally describes the lot size, and what is included in the legal description, and what is usable, which may be different. One reason the sidewalk is on the lot owners legal description and not usable by the lot owner, is it determines who owns the sidewalk as an example, and makes the lot owner responsible for maintaining the sidewalk replacing it if needed, and keeps snow and ice off he sidewalk. He is the legal owner of the sidewalk, and if does not maintain it and keep it safe, and does not keep the ice and snow off it, then the lot owner is the one that gets sued if someone walks down on it and it is not safe to use due to needing repair or ice and snow makes it unsafe, it is the lot owner that gets sued not the city.

So OP, the legal description and measurements are most often different from the lot measurements you are relying on, and would show on a survey using the legal description the larger size.

The Realtor can only use the legal description to determine and list as the size of the lot. Our first house in the Silicon Valley had a front yard that from the front of the house to sidewalk, was 35 feet deeper than the legal description showed. This was demanded by the City/County, as that 35 feet was to allow the street to be widened by 2 lanes in the future. Yes the City/County actually owned that 35 feet we had in a nice lawn. Our lots were 35 feet deeper than the one across the street. Years after we sold the home, the road was widened, and the size of he usable lot was reduced by 35 feet.

This one factor in the size computation, made our usable lots 1750 feet larger than the legal description shown by the county records. If there is an alley in back between 2 rows of houses which in not common today, the legal description will include half the alley.

These are the reasons, that the usable lot size you are talking about, and the legal lot size shown on county records or surveys and shown by the Realtor differ. By laws the Realtor has to give the legal description lot size that is official. They are doing what is correct.

The surveyor, when they do a legal survey, will be the legal description of the lot not the actual usable lot size, and will show that property actually owned by the Buyer, Seller, and used by the Realtor. What the surveyor is doing, is showing the actual land owned by the owners owning the property, and is marking the true property lines, not showing the usable lot after taking off things like sidewalk, etc. as you are referring to. That is why the two measurements differ. I learned about this in a University class on land measurements and surveys.

As I was taught, there is a legal size of the total lot, and the usable lot where the house sits, and always expect them to differ.
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Old 02-01-2018, 05:26 PM
 
10,610 posts, read 12,719,823 times
Reputation: 17084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Roach View Post
Seeing as how so many agents couldn't pass Algebra I, I would suggest it as a tool to anyone buying a small lot just to make sure the ad isn't literally off the map. I can come within 2% from 8500 miles away; they overstated by 1/3 and lived in that exact community for 100 years between them. Up to you.

But, after reading the comments from the Realtor lackeys, I have decided to resubmit my offer, and lower it 1000, with my explanation. If they refuse to submit, I will send a letter directly to the trustee.
So YOU want realtors to argue about the way properties are legally describe as RECORDED BY THE COUNTY, you want them to use some Joe Schmoe nothing other website for LEGAL BUSINESS.... yet you respond to realtors being NICE to you by calling them lackeys?

Amazing.

Also funny you're apparently not even using a realtor in this transaction anyway, as a buyer, so you want to argue with the SELLER's agent. LOL, srsly.
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Old 02-01-2018, 09:50 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
6,587 posts, read 5,310,441 times
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from > 1000 miles away.

what could go wrong?
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Old 02-01-2018, 11:08 PM
 
1,357 posts, read 676,756 times
Reputation: 966
I counted half the alley and to the street, standard in Arizona. I also double checked with the 18 identical lots that comprise the block, and was within 2%. The number the realtor used was not on the information sheet from the county data.
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Old 02-02-2018, 08:01 AM
 
4,159 posts, read 1,271,640 times
Reputation: 3716
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontaskwhy View Post
How do you propose they "double check" the lot size ? They have to rely on county/city records, from the owner and/or from a prior survey. This is the very reason I always recommended buyers to pay for a survey from a licensed surveyor in their own name. The realtor shouldn't be expected to pay for a survey on every property they list.
But every realtor should be able to tell the difference between a 13,000-foot lot and a 9,000-foot one.
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Old 02-02-2018, 12:21 PM
 
Location: Somewhere in America
12,308 posts, read 9,435,423 times
Reputation: 20376
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hal Roach View Post
But, wouldn't you expect a person, who may have lived for decades within a mile of the house to know? And rectangular city lots, with house barely 20 feet apart? And, when asked to verify, just regurgitated the same slop? People make mistakes, but when obvious stuff is brought to their attention, it is a good chance to show professionalism.
Nope. I've owned my house for 5 years. I honestly can't tell you where all of my property lines are. There's a few easements that have an impact as well. I live on over an acre. I have a rough idea where the border is. A survey was done when we bought the property, but they didn't put stakes every 5-10 feet. There were 4 stakes. One on each corner. That's it. No one's property here is exactly straight because we all have a series of hills in our backyards and they all go down hill.

Our house is considered to be 1994 sq ft by the town. 400 sq ft of that is a deck! It's not a livable space. Another 120 sq ft is a covered porch - not enclosed. So our house isn't 1994 sq ft. The actual livable space is 1474 sq ft! A quarter of the square footage that town includes is NOT livable space. When we bought the house, we didn't know this. We didn't find out until our assessment came from the purchase of the house. The realtor used the sq ft provided by the town. How would the realtor know this info wasn't accurate? I wouldn't expect them to go around with a tape measurer and do the math.
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Old 02-03-2018, 08:35 AM
 
1,357 posts, read 676,756 times
Reputation: 966
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmichigan View Post
I think that most purchasers would be highly dissatisfied with an agent if all the agent did was use an online tool to estimate the lot size. Just sayin'.

But, as long as you're happy...
The free software would be a lot better than them not correcting their own mistake which represents one third of the lot size. But, most know there is a disclaimer on every listing, so it is not like they will be held accountable, and it is quite obvious one can obtain a Realtors license without knowing anything about land measurements or eight grade mathematics. Flood zone? What's that? And isn't Michigan the state that originated the concept of "negative property values"? But hey, I actually once had a good car that was made in Detroit. No, not really.

Last edited by Hal Roach; 02-03-2018 at 09:11 AM..
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