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Old 03-07-2018, 06:26 AM
 
1,528 posts, read 726,575 times
Reputation: 2062

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
the problem i have found is sooooo many of the fee only guys seem to be fee only because they lack the training, certification or knowledge needed to sell many excellent products or THEY WOULDN'T BE FEE ONLY . .

i found most of the fee only guys i interviewed to be behind the times when it comes to utilizing many low cost products today that can form an excellent comprehensive retirement plan .

so finally i selected a commissioned guy who was really on top of his game . i ended up buying a ny state long term care partnership plan which i was interested in from him ..

so don't think for one second a fee only guy is the best choice. i found them overall to be the weakest choice and many fee only for a reason , they lack the credentials and training in more comprehensive planning with products and methods they know little about .
This has not been my experience. One of the challenges with fee only has been the lower/mid market.
Many fee only advisors operating in this part of the market find it harder make a good living because this segment is less willing to 'explicitly' pay for advisory services and they are more attracted to what has the appearance of being free. Therefore with less earning potential and more difficulty building a business, it's not always attracting the best and most dedicated advisors. At the higher end however, what you say is most definitely not what I've seen. That's where the best can operate in a fee only model with great success...if they are good. Commission based services are not really even a viable option in this segment of the market.
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Old 03-07-2018, 06:26 AM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,611 posts, read 55,335,524 times
Reputation: 30164
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
the problem i have found is sooooo many of the fee only guys seem to be fee only because they lack the training, certification or knowledge needed to sell many excellent products or THEY WOULDN'T BE FEE ONLY . .

i found most of the fee only guys i interviewed to be behind the times when it comes to utilizing many low cost products today that can form an excellent comprehensive retirement plan .

so finally i selected a commissioned guy who was really on top of his game . i ended up buying a ny state long term care partnership plan which i was interested in from him ..

so don't think for one second a fee only guy is the best choice. i found them overall to be the weakest choice and many fee only for a reason , they lack the credentials and training in more comprehensive planning with products and methods they know little about .
And, we always have to consider "fiduciary" vs. "suitablity" standards for the advisor.

"Suitability" is not enough, IMO. I want the advisor to be offering me advice on products that are "the best" for me.

A discussion:
https://wealth-engineering.com/2017/...oes-it-matter/
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Old 03-07-2018, 07:59 AM
 
Location: Ocala, FL
3,119 posts, read 5,751,064 times
Reputation: 2639
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
in my opinion real estate agents should have a basic understanding of major tax law changes like this .
They should have basic knowledge as you say, but they are not qualified to offer tax advice. It would be no different than asking your doctor to fix you car.
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Old 03-07-2018, 08:31 AM
 
1,528 posts, read 726,575 times
Reputation: 2062
Quote:
Originally Posted by dontaskwhy View Post
They should have basic knowledge as you say, but they are not qualified to offer tax advice. It would be no different than asking your doctor to fix you car.
The problem isn't as much with the asking, it's that the 'professional' gave advice that he/she was not qualified to give. There is an ethical requirement for professionals to give responsible advice and that includes not giving advice that one is not qualified to give and not to give 'pop advice' on the internet (to borrow from a term used here).

Let's say 'pop advice' is a consumer coming here and typing out a few lines of a question or issue and real estate agents (professionals posting in their professional capacity) falling all over themselves to give definitive snap answers. Simplified question and simplified answer - unfortunately in areas that are not simple, have loads of rules, exceptions, tests, complex worksheets, principles requiring interpretation, state differences, etc, etc. And also importantly, can create SERIOUS problems for consumers if the advice they follow is wrong, unclear, misleading, incomplete, poorly explained, confusing, is based on incorrect assumptions, etc.

No, it's not taxable
Yes, your policy will cover you
Don't worry about inheritance tax under 5.5m
You should put it in a trust

We have agents who have voiced a great deal of concern about 'pop appraisals' on the grounds that they are misleading to consumers and it's information without a strong basis in fact. But they seem much less concerned about 'pop advice' that shows up here every day. I mean, go ahead and fight Zillow, etc but your energy would be much more productive addressing the nonsense that goes on here - by some agents posting in their professional capacity.
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Old 03-07-2018, 09:38 AM
 
64,646 posts, read 66,158,228 times
Reputation: 43065
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_because View Post
This has not been my experience. One of the challenges with fee only has been the lower/mid market.
Many fee only advisors operating in this part of the market find it harder make a good living because this segment is less willing to 'explicitly' pay for advisory services and they are more attracted to what has the appearance of being free. Therefore with less earning potential and more difficulty building a business, it's not always attracting the best and most dedicated advisors. At the higher end however, what you say is most definitely not what I've seen. That's where the best can operate in a fee only model with great success...if they are good. Commission based services are not really even a viable option in this segment of the market.
it depends on a few things .one of which is your own level of knowledge to differentiate between them . it also matters which part of the game your in .

most planners are fine in the accumulation stage . they basically have been following the boomers through the accumulation stage. heck buy some index funds and your done .

the problem is in the decumulation stage . most planners suck in modern day retirement planning . they are old school in their thinking and training and have little experience since boomers are first reaching that point .

a lot of old school training no longer has been found to be effective and a lot of old school thinking about not using certain products has been found to be incorrect .

the biggest problem is most people can't tell a great plan vs just a plan. finding someone well schooled in the 2nd half of the game ain't easy and like i said i found fee only the least knowledgeable in that area .
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Old 03-07-2018, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
3,832 posts, read 2,056,232 times
Reputation: 10577
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_because View Post
Wow licensed professionals posting in their professional capacity really should not give reckless advice like this. Shocking and very irresponsible.

If a licensed real estate agent gave irresponsible tax advice to a client, would there be any recourse? Since we have agents posting in their professional capacity on a board dedicated to real estate matters, would there be similar recourse available? Or do we all just need to silently endure endless streams of dangerous advice from people who should know better.
Silently endure endless streams of dangerous advice? Really? Drama much?

You want recourse - some way to actually punish people - with whom you disagree with on a small out of the way subforum on the internet. You want to go further than simply posting your own differing point of view, you want to go after these people in their profession and livelihood. Really? JB... I implore you. Find a better hobby and mission in life!

Imagine if this energy and commitment were applied against ACTUAL villains committing real evil in the world. Imagine the actual good you could do against a real threat to society!

Think about it.
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Old 03-08-2018, 07:33 AM
 
64,646 posts, read 66,158,228 times
Reputation: 43065
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bindenver View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bindenver View Post
So I am your focus now?

The OP has properties in my state. This information is clearly available online. It is written in plain English.

It is not false, misleading, misinterpreted or reckless.

One poster claims that the rule changed in 2007 without any proof. And you bought it, hook line & sinker.

If the OP contacted me personally, I would have given more information. This is a public online forum. My statements are backed by facts, not imagination.
in the mean time i addressed this and you are still wrong as you stated . what i i stated clearly is on page 15 section b in your link . i just think you did not actually read or understand what you posted. that is the section that pertains to the Housing and Economic Recovery Act of 2008 , when you make a previously own property a primary after the fact .

Last edited by mathjak107; 03-08-2018 at 07:44 AM..
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Old 03-09-2018, 03:05 AM
 
64,646 posts, read 66,158,228 times
Reputation: 43065
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_because View Post
The problem isn't as much with the asking, it's that the 'professional' gave advice that he/she was not qualified to give. There is an ethical requirement for professionals to give responsible advice and that includes not giving advice that one is not qualified to give and not to give 'pop advice' on the internet (to borrow from a term used here).

Let's say 'pop advice' is a consumer coming here and typing out a few lines of a question or issue and real estate agents (professionals posting in their professional capacity) falling all over themselves to give definitive snap answers. Simplified question and simplified answer - unfortunately in areas that are not simple, have loads of rules, exceptions, tests, complex worksheets, principles requiring interpretation, state differences, etc, etc. And also importantly, can create SERIOUS problems for consumers if the advice they follow is wrong, unclear, misleading, incomplete, poorly explained, confusing, is based on incorrect assumptions, etc.

No, it's not taxable
Yes, your policy will cover you
Don't worry about inheritance tax under 5.5m
You should put it in a trust

We have agents who have voiced a great deal of concern about 'pop appraisals' on the grounds that they are misleading to consumers and it's information without a strong basis in fact. But they seem much less concerned about 'pop advice' that shows up here every day. I mean, go ahead and fight Zillow, etc but your energy would be much more productive addressing the nonsense that goes on here - by some agents posting in their professional capacity.
there is a lot of truth to this .

many times it is not what we don't know as much as what we think we know that ain't so that gets us in trouble .

how many times have you seen non qualified advice given like the house should be in a trust so it is not probated ...

what those giving that advice don't realize is that putting a house in any kind of revocable trust takes a protected asset from medicaid and unprotects it .

so now the house becomes countable in value for qualifying for medicaid . you have to sell the house that was protected and now count it as an asset and spend the money down to even get medicaid .

so not everyone should be using trusts if medicaid planning is part of the plan .

i am very active on the financial forums but i only throw out general information or talk about what i would do . i try to never tell others what they should do unless what they want to do is flat out wrong or dangerous .

Last edited by mathjak107; 03-09-2018 at 04:22 AM..
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Old 03-09-2018, 04:33 AM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,611 posts, read 55,335,524 times
Reputation: 30164
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathjak107 View Post
there is a lot of truth to this .

many times it is not what we don't know as much as what we think we know that ain't so that gets us in trouble .

how many times have you seen non qualified advice given like the house should be in a trust so it is not probated ...

what those giving that advice don't realize is that putting a house in any kind of revocable trust takes a protected asset from medicaid and unprotects it .

so now the house becomes countable in value for qualifying for medicaid . you have to sell the house that was protected and spend the money down to even get medicaid .

so not everyone should be using trusts if medicaid planning is part of the plan .

i am very active on the financial forums but i only throw out general information or talk about what i would do . i try to never tell others what they should do unless what they want to do is flat out wrong or dangerous .
It is the implicit nature of this very successful forum that it is not manned by anyone acting as fiduciaries to visitors. We have no staff CPAs, estate and real estate attorneys, CFPs, psychiatrists, psychics or mediums, or superhero empaths.
We, licensees, do need to qualify advice given, and regularly do so. We also help a great many people daily, and have for years.
And, anyone going to a forum with a query needs to take personal responsibility when considering any conversational input, particularly when withholding pertinent facts.
They need to contemplate any input in light of the details they do not offer.

The forum is just people having conversations, hopefully helpful conversations, bringing different topics to light for visitors to consider.
It is not a formal operational manual for life.

Exposing repetitive lies from anonymous players who routinely troll to toy with the public for their own childish entertainment, or who hijack every possible thread to bloviate with narcissistic preening, is a genuine benefit to honest CD visitors.
It is something to which honest licensees here donate a great deal of time.

It would be more honest of the players to start their own forum, with their own rules, and to recruit people to act as professional fiduciaries to the public, than try to reframe, or diminish conversation in, this very successful forum on the basis of narcissism and repetitive lies from the cozy comfort of anonymity.
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Old 03-09-2018, 04:54 AM
 
6,359 posts, read 7,330,919 times
Reputation: 10812
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
It is the implicit nature of this very successful forum that it is not manned by anyone acting as fiduciaries to visitors. We have no staff CPAs, estate and real estate attorneys, CFPs, psychiatrists, psychics or mediums, or superhero empaths.
We, licensees, do need to qualify advice given, and regularly do so. We also help a great many people daily, and have for years.
And, anyone going to a forum with a query needs to take personal responsibility when considering any conversational input, particularly when withholding pertinent facts.
They need to contemplate any input in light of the details they do not offer.

The forum is just people having conversations, hopefully helpful conversations, bringing different topics to light for visitors to consider.
It is not a formal operational manual for life.

Exposing repetitive lies from anonymous players who routinely troll to toy with the public for their own childish entertainment, or who hijack every possible thread to bloviate with narcissistic preening, is a genuine benefit to honest CD visitors.
It is something to which honest licensees here donate a great deal of time.

It would be more honest of the players to start their own forum, with their own rules, and to recruit people to act as professional fiduciaries to the public, than try to reframe, or diminish conversation in, this very successful forum on the basis of narcissism and repetitive lies from the cozy comfort of anonymity.
For a moment, I half-expected you to use the line "nattering nabobs of negativism".
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