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Old 04-02-2018, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,754 posts, read 31,645,829 times
Reputation: 12126

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Quote:
Originally Posted by I love boots. View Post
Plumbing vent or vent flashing.

And all of you should stay off the roof.
I don't go on roofs, but you can see them if it is a one story home from down below. That link takes you to a picture of a bad boot next to a good one. That crack is really bad, but you can often see the split down below.

The pipe is the vent, the metal apron is the flashing and the rubber piece is the boot. They generally come in one big kit put together that roofers just glue to the deck of the roof. Then shingle over the apron/flashing. If your husband just installs things new, then he probably wouldn't know the name of that piece individually since they come as one whole unit new. It's just such a common repair item.

I comment on chimney flashing when I can see it from down below, missing chimney caps, crumbling mortar, etc. Lots of things you can see from down below without climbing up on a roof. Why do you think we are all climbing up on roofs?

I think the difference in styles is that I believe that home inspections are expensive by the time you do all the ones you should do. I think people work hard for their money and I don't want them to waste it. I take the time to get some general knowledge about homes, construction, etc so that I can point out obvious issues to home buyers. That way, they don't spend thousands on an inspection only to terminate over obvious issues. It isn't that I act as a home inspector or inspect the house, but if the house has a Zinsco panel, crumbling mortar on a chimney, and was built in the 1950's so it likely has non-insulated floors (very common out here) and likely the original galvanized plumbing, that is relevant to home buyers as those are all expensive items to fix.

Wouldn't you rather have your agent point those things out to you before you wrote an offer?
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:07 PM
 
1,528 posts, read 734,426 times
Reputation: 2062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
I don't go on roofs, but you can see them if it is a one story home from down below. That link takes you to a picture of a bad boot next to a good one. That crack is really bad, but you can often see the split down below.

The pipe is the vent, the metal apron is the flashing and the rubber piece is the boot. They generally come in one big kit put together that roofers just glue to the deck of the roof. Then shingle over the apron/flashing. If your husband just installs things new, then he probably wouldn't know the name of that piece individually since they come as one whole unit new. It's just such a common repair item.

I comment on chimney flashing when I can see it from down below, missing chimney caps, crumbling mortar, etc. Lots of things you can see from down below without climbing up on a roof. Why do you think we are all climbing up on roofs?

I think the difference in styles is that I believe that home inspections are expensive by the time you do all the ones you should do. I think people work hard for their money and I don't want them to waste it. I take the time to get some general knowledge about homes, construction, etc so that I can point out obvious issues to home buyers. That way, they don't spend thousands on an inspection only to terminate over obvious issues. It isn't that I act as a home inspector or inspect the house, but if the house has a Zinsco panel, crumbling mortar on a chimney, and was built in the 1950's so it likely has non-insulated floors (very common out here) and likely the original galvanized plumbing, that is relevant to home buyers as those are all expensive items to fix.

Wouldn't you rather have your agent point those things out to you before you wrote an offer?
On the surface, what you say makes good sense.

You've articulated a strong case for why this "pre-inspection" (for lack of a better name) is important for a buyer in avoiding costs of backing out of a deal after inspection. Do you document what you check (i.e. is it a defined service?) so that prospective clients can compare with other agents? And do you document the output of these checks once they are done?

I mean something like - "Where applicable and accessible, I do a visual check of these 17 things - roof, pipe boots, foundation, etc, etc, .... And I provide a report on my visual check."

Kind of like when you bought a used car in the old days and they would say "don't worry, lady, we check all our cars before we put them on the lot". And the consumer kind of just thinks this is very vague and a rather meaningless claim. Verses today how better dealers have a 48-point (or whatever) check that is documented for used cars. I think consumers appreciate this kind of clarity and structure.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:15 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,754 posts, read 31,645,829 times
Reputation: 12126
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_because View Post
On the surface, what you say makes good sense.

You've articulated a strong case for why this "pre-inspection" (for lack of a better name) is important for a buyer in avoiding costs of backing out of a deal after inspection. Do you document what you check (i.e. is it a defined service?) so that prospective clients can compare with other agents? And do you document the output of these checks once they are done?

I mean something like - "Where applicable and accessible, I do a visual check of these 17 things - roof, pipe boots, foundation, etc, etc, .... And I provide a report on my visual check."

Kind of like when you bought a used car in the old days and they would say "don't worry, lady, we check all our cars before we put them on the lot". And the consumer kind of just thinks this is very vague and a rather meaningless claim. Verses today how better dealers have a 48-point (or whatever) check that is documented for used cars. I think consumers appreciate this kind of clarity and structure.
No, I don't have a checklist. Different era homes have different issues out here.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
3,850 posts, read 2,083,068 times
Reputation: 10614
The service is just being observant to things you notice that are important. It's not vague to the client, because the client is there with us.... usually!
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:29 PM
 
1,528 posts, read 734,426 times
Reputation: 2062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
No, I don't have a checklist. Different era homes have different issues out here.
Understood but I was not referring to issues. I'm talking about a definition of what is checked in your visual 'pre-inspection' so that consumers understand what this service is and what it is not. Presumably you check pretty much the same things on all homes. Some things that would be potentially checked would be missing in some homes - e.g. basement, attic, gutters, or whatever. But that's what N/A is for on the output report.

What I'm thinking is that if it's so important to clients then it should have the appropriate level of formality around it. Just my opinion.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
3,850 posts, read 2,083,068 times
Reputation: 10614
JB.... you're overthinking and trying to overformalize the act of being experienced and observant when walking through a house. We look at a lot of houses, and every single one of them is different. If we made a checklist for everything, we'd have time for nothing but completing checklists. My clients appreciate everything we notice.

If we notice that the water heater is not strapped to the wall and will need to be before appraisal, that's just being experienced and observant. If we called it a pre-inspection, we'd probably have someone (you, maybe!) complain about our qualifications to do that.
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Old 04-02-2018, 04:47 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,754 posts, read 31,645,829 times
Reputation: 12126
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_because View Post
Understood but I was not referring to issues. I'm talking about a definition of what is checked in your visual 'pre-inspection' so that consumers understand what this service is and what it is not. Presumably you check pretty much the same things on all homes. Some things that would be potentially checked would be missing in some homes - e.g. basement, attic, gutters, or whatever. But that's what N/A is for on the output report.

What I'm thinking is that if it's so important to clients then it should have the appropriate level of formality around it. Just my opinion.

My clients want my advice, experience, and observations. We discuss homes as we walk through them because I can tailor my comments to their experience level. Someone that has gutted 5 old homes doesn't need me to explain what knob and tube is to them.

You can formalize everything and in the process depersonalize it and make it worthless to the consumer.
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Old 04-02-2018, 05:49 PM
 
1,528 posts, read 734,426 times
Reputation: 2062
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
JB.... you're overthinking and trying to overformalize the act of being experienced and observant when walking through a house. We look at a lot of houses, and every single one of them is different. If we made a checklist for everything, we'd have time for nothing but completing checklists. My clients appreciate everything we notice.

If we notice that the water heater is not strapped to the wall and will need to be before appraisal, that's just being experienced and observant. If we called it a pre-inspection, we'd probably have someone (you, maybe!) complain about our qualifications to do that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Silverfall View Post
My clients want my advice, experience, and observations. We discuss homes as we walk through them because I can tailor my comments to their experience level. Someone that has gutted 5 old homes doesn't need me to explain what knob and tube is to them.

You can formalize everything and in the process depersonalize it and make it worthless to the consumer.

This is also important for consumers to understand in selecting an agent. It's clear (even right on this thread) that different agents have different levels of capability in this area and their practices differ greatly. So why not document what you will do so it's clear to people? It's just a suggestion.

Clearly consumer expectations are changing and I think providing more specific information is helpful and expected today. Again like the difference between "don't worry, lady, we check all our cars" vs a structured and defined 42 point used car check. People often check menus online before they decide on a restaurant - just hearing "it's good" is increasingly not good enough. They expect to see a photo of every room in their airbnb and check the precise location on google maps/google earth. Some people even read owners' manuals online before buying electronics like cameras, etc. They don't want the marketing, they want the specifics. So hearing "trust me, i'm experienced" from an agent is not really aligned with the expectations of modern consumers.

Specific 'promises' always trump vague ones in consumer's eyes, in my opinion. I think that one of the innovations that we'll see in disruptors in the real estate world will be very clearly defined services. The appeal to consumers will be less "trust me" and more specifics. Just my opinion and perhaps an opportunity for agents to start to differentiate themselves.
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:56 PM
 
1,525 posts, read 577,430 times
Reputation: 2954
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
Just_because, IF you were an agent in the US, how would you handle the inspection process?
They’ll never answer that question. Much like they never responded to mine.
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Old 04-02-2018, 08:58 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,754 posts, read 31,645,829 times
Reputation: 12126
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_because View Post
This is also important for consumers to understand in selecting an agent. It's clear (even right on this thread) that different agents have different levels of capability in this area and their practices differ greatly. So why not document what you will do so it's clear to people? It's just a suggestion.

Clearly consumer expectations are changing and I think providing more specific information is helpful and expected today. Again like the difference between "don't worry, lady, we check all our cars" vs a structured and defined 42 point used car check. People often check menus online before they decide on a restaurant - just hearing "it's good" is increasingly not good enough. They expect to see a photo of every room in their airbnb and check the precise location on google maps/google earth. Some people even read owners' manuals online before buying electronics like cameras, etc. They don't want the marketing, they want the specifics. So hearing "trust me, i'm experienced" from an agent is not really aligned with the expectations of modern consumers.

Specific 'promises' always trump vague ones in consumer's eyes, in my opinion. I think that one of the innovations that we'll see in disruptors in the real estate world will be very clearly defined services. The appeal to consumers will be less "trust me" and more specifics. Just my opinion and perhaps an opportunity for agents to start to differentiate themselves.
I've had clients that have their spreadsheets where they write down and analyze the bejeebers out of every single house. They are not the norm. Most people don't work that way. I'm not going to do checklists because buyers won't use them and I know this from experience. The analytical types that do prefer to create their own to go with the flow of their brain.
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