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Old 04-11-2018, 10:37 PM
 
Location: Northern NJ
7,407 posts, read 7,370,730 times
Reputation: 10612

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
Not at all! Why would you think that?

I'm not the one recommending they renegotiate the sale price over paint repair and a bathroom that by all accounts we've heard, has already been fixed and doesn't need repair.

I suggested they decide if they want the house or not, and act accordingly. Do you have me confused with someone else?

I am though, not sure what "other" options they really have that others wouldn't.

On edit.... I do hope you enlighten us on the last part.... I'm intrigued now! But probably can't respond til morning... it's past my bedtime here. Good night all.
Move into a house with someone's old paint job? I would never move into a new house without a total repaint anyway. The furniture is out, the place is empty. Paint the damned thing while it's easy and you are not in it with your furniture and belongings.
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Old 04-11-2018, 11:40 PM
 
3 posts, read 720 times
Reputation: 10
Is this you first home?
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:09 AM
 
Location: Silicon Valley
2,773 posts, read 1,219,983 times
Reputation: 5100
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
A funny thing happens when any tradesman from SLC or Ogden or Orem/Provo comes up the hill to Park City: their rates go up quite a bit. Ditto for contractors driving in from Wyoming. (The house is 7K sf btw.)

Regardless, as you point out, there are many ways to skin a cat.
Stopping here as it's time for work. Skilled Tradesmen can be frustratingly difficult to get in rural areas. Had to get home modifications when prepping for Dad's hospice return and actually told one that I really hoped my cheapest option wouldn't be flying a crew in from "high-cost" Silicon Valley.

The reality is with a nice home, you're going to be limited with the crews that can actually do the work. They know they have the market, and they're going to crucify you because they know you have the money. It may be why the seller's didn't do it...or tried with a crap crew.

I do hate the lack of honesty in the disclosure...because now you've got to be worried about what you're going to find. If plumbing was on an exterior wall...I'd question the builder's ability to build that probably isn't a seller issue. If they built other nearby homes, maybe see if you can gauge the builder's local reputation.

Finally, you'll need to be comfortable with paying overpriced crews. Maintaining 7000 sf is a lot of space and in hard seasons, there will always be something to maintain. It's why you hear of giant homes being abandoned. Now if you've got the money for it, great. But take a moment to consider:

If I buy a home that I could potentially rent out, I'm buying an asset, and renting it to myself.
If I buy a home that I simply couldn't consider renting out...my future cash flows is always negative aside from a bigger sucker. Do I have an asset, or a luxury?

Assuming you still want it, the seller may be willing to split the paint crew amount with an invoice. It doesn't hurt to ask, but have your decision ready regardless of the answer. Because if the cost of paint breaks your budget, you can't afford this home. It's totally understandable to be wary of the seller though.
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:33 AM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
3,840 posts, read 2,061,340 times
Reputation: 10587
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
Diana This is a sophisticated buyer with substantial resources. If he feels the transactions is not straight up he can shut down the transactions for a year or more. He does not have to proceed or quit.

Do not expect the elephants to behave like normal clients. They can and may shut the transaction down until the issue is resolved.

None of this go away if you do not want to buy. The seller cannot sell either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
That he can do what he wishes does not require that he avoid insights from the web.

What he can do and chooses to do are different things.

Does it offend you that he has in fact more options than most would?

OK - Now that I'm looking at this in the light of morning with good cup of coffee in my hand... I'm really curious about these posts.

I certainly do NOT want to insult anyone, most particularly the OP, by talking about them or their "resources" like they aren't here, and please note... I am in no way "offended" if they have options I have not considered, but I am curious about lvmensch's posts, these different rules for "elephants" and the poster's rather out-of-left-field hostility. It doesn't make a lot of sense, to me.

lvmensch? Can you expand on their options to "shut down the transactions for a year or more"... over dissatisfaction on a final walk-through? And tell us what options these buyers have that our other clients don't have?

Interested in the discussion!
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Old 04-12-2018, 08:53 AM
 
1,523 posts, read 569,016 times
Reputation: 2954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
OK - Now that I'm looking at this in the light of morning with good cup of coffee in my hand... I'm really curious about these posts.

I certainly do NOT want to insult anyone, most particularly the OP, by talking about them or their "resources" like they aren't here, and please note... I am in no way "offended" if they have options I have not considered, but I am curious about lvmensch's posts, these different rules for "elephants" and the poster's rather out-of-left-field hostility. It doesn't make a lot of sense, to me.

lvmensch? Can you expand on their options to "shut down the transactions for a year or more"... over dissatisfaction on a final walk-through? And tell us what options these buyers have that our other clients don't have?

Interested in the discussion!
Weird hostile tone aside, I think the poster brings up a good point. IMO, they (Op) have a legitimate case for the cost to repair being considered damage that occurred after going under contract. The seller has admitted that they performed the change (lousy repair that will cost money to mitigate) after the home went under contract. There is also a failure to disclose material fact compounding the issue, like it or not, this is another factor that would not play well in arbitration or court.

Conceivably, the buyer (OP) might have the financial resources to take this to litigation and tie up the home and the transaction for quite some time - and (IMO) they would have a somewhat compelling case, given the cost to restore the home to the condition present at the time of the contract, while also compensating for the impact to insurability.

Now, you have taken the opinion that the faulty repairs the seller has made do NOT constitute damage. Under that theory, there's no case, no tie up - up to the buyer if they want to proceed or not.

Obviously, we don't have really enough information to be definitive, but "based on the information provided", if the seller did indeed create a condition that will cost more to mitigate than what the repair would have cost to complete properly the first time - they surely could be found liable for the difference in cost. Determining this difference is the true bugaboo here, and is what could tie the transaction up for an indeterminate time period.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:10 AM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
3,840 posts, read 2,061,340 times
Reputation: 10587
There might well be a case someone could seek for money damages if they go through with the sale and suffer damages and documented repair costs... but I'm curious whether one could NOT proceed with closing, and still tie up the property past the scheduled closing date, without the seller's consent or agreement.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:12 AM
 
1,523 posts, read 569,016 times
Reputation: 2954
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
There might well be a case someone could seek for money damages if they go through with the sale and suffer damages and documented repair costs... but I'm curious whether one could NOT proceed with closing, and still tie up the property past the scheduled closing date.
Yeah - they can... at least "in my area"

It turns into a nightmare of suit and counter-suit for breech of contract essentially.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:32 AM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
3,840 posts, read 2,061,340 times
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HOW? How does one tie up the property past the contract expiration?

Once the closing date passes without closing or agree-upon extension in our area the contract is expired and the seller is free to put it back on the market.

These parties could end up in court seeking money damages later, anyone can sue... but I'm curious if someone here is saying they could tie up the house past it's contract date and prevent seller from selling it to someone else. I'm not sure about that, and that seems like a potentially risky proposition for the buyer to seek, because then THEY might be liable for seller's costs and damages if they lose.

Just curious about how that might look.
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:38 AM
 
10,806 posts, read 3,768,270 times
Reputation: 4713
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
There might well be a case someone could seek for money damages if they go through with the sale and suffer damages and documented repair costs... but I'm curious whether one could NOT proceed with closing, and still tie up the property past the scheduled closing date, without the seller's consent or agreement.
For the normal buyer legal actions to force compliance to a contract is a hopeless loser. You either make a rational deal and complete the contract or walk away. And you may have trouble walking away with a return of earnest money. The way such disputes generally break here favors the seller...an escrow stoppage leaves the escrow money hung but it does not prevent the seller from making a new sale. One can have escrow take the transaction to court but that often ends up with all or a large portion of the earnest money paying the Escrow company legal fees.

If the transaction actually becomes a court case you run the risk of "loser pays" that is standard in our contracts. And it is not uncommon for the legal fees to become greater than the amount in dispute.

In this case the buyer could file suit for performance involving some significant reduction in the price or other action to right the wrong. And in that action they can likely tie up the building for the duration of the legal action. This would be a calculated risk...but the seller has the same problem. Such a legal action here could easily exceed a year or more.
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Old 04-12-2018, 10:06 AM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
3,840 posts, read 2,061,340 times
Reputation: 10587
Quote:
Originally Posted by lvmensch View Post
For the normal buyer legal actions to force compliance to a contract is a hopeless loser. You either make a rational deal and complete the contract or walk away. And you may have trouble walking away with a return of earnest money. The way such disputes generally break here favors the seller...an escrow stoppage leaves the escrow money hung but it does not prevent the seller from making a new sale. One can have escrow take the transaction to court but that often ends up with all or a large portion of the earnest money paying the Escrow company legal fees.

If the transaction actually becomes a court case you run the risk of "loser pays" that is standard in our contracts. And it is not uncommon for the legal fees to become greater than the amount in dispute.

In this case the buyer could file suit for performance involving some significant reduction in the price or other action to right the wrong. And in that action they can likely tie up the building for the duration of the legal action. This would be a calculated risk...but the seller has the same problem. Such a legal action here could easily exceed a year or more.
I agree with the first and second paragraphs! I'm not a lawyer, but I wonder if there's any precedent for the third where we talk of tying up the building for the duration of a lawsuit.
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