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Old 04-09-2018, 12:53 PM
 
26,886 posts, read 38,133,169 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
I've thought of the same thing. I do have a relationship with a painter there who has done sheetrock & paint repair on our house there, and I trust his work. He worked on our Henderson house for months, repairing the walls as others tradesmen had to make repairs in items behind the walls.



I've also thought of that. If it were just a few bedroom walls with 8' or 10' ceilings, I would probably tackle it myself. But the entry, living room, dining room and a few others have soaring 30' ceilings. That's a bunch of scaffolding work that is beyond my comfort zone. And yes, there is a ton of damage on those walls, and I anticipate a corner-to-corner repaint.

Sometimes paint match isn't that simple. In our Nevada house (a new custom build), the paint was Frazee. At some point, Frazee was acquired by Sherwin Williams, and afterwards, their paint would only sort-of-match. Looked dead-on, the color was right, but from a mild or severe angle, it wouldn't. Moreover the Sherwin Williams rebranded paint didn't perform in the real world. The paint was marketed as one that was washable to remove minor marks and smudges, but even the mildest possible wipe of the paint left it "burnished."

The Sherwin Williams factory product engineers and application engineers and HQ product management team all said "we just weren't doing it right." So they came to our house to teach us the proper technique - and the paint failed when they tried to do anything. They cut a 1' by 1' section of the sheetrock & sent it back to their factory labs for analysis. The analysis didn't find anything amiss - the paint seemed to be OK and had been applied at the proper thickness, etc.

Sherwin Williams -- at their expense! -- offered to repaint the entire interior of the house with their top-of-the-line interior paint. Their application engineers were on site during the repaint, and spent the first morning with the actual painters, instructing them on a specific technique to prepare and paint that was different than what painters would normally do.

The repaint took about 3 weeks with a team of about 6 or 8 painters including helpers. That includes all the masking and tarping, cleanup, etc.
I've worked on scaffolding that high. The world looks different from up there.

We've had some problems with paint matching through SW. They changed the "mix" on one we have in this house and we had to take it back three times. They came through for us, but it would have been easier all around if they had left it alone. There wasn't anything wrong with the original mix.
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Old 04-09-2018, 02:50 PM
 
7,649 posts, read 5,402,223 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Any advice for me? We've discovered some latent, hidden damage on the final walk through. We're scheduled to close this coming week.

The house is about 10 years old, and seemed to be in pretty good condition. The seller's disclosure didn't mention the following, and they were not observable until today (final walk through):
  1. Many of the sheetrock walls have hidden damage. It was hidden by artwork that was hung when we saw the house & had an inspector evaluate it. Now, of course, the artwork has been removed along with the seller's furniture. The nature of the damage: it looks like they had a not-very-good handyman (instead of a drywall/painting contractor) try to touch up the picture hook nail holes, but made it quite worse. Now there are large (2' by 3') areas on most every wall that no longer match. They are pretty dramatically ugly. Again, this is not just in one spot - it everywhere throughout the house.

    The seller -- who was there for the final walkthrough -- verbally said they had someone do repair work on them in an attempt to make them better - indicating acknowledgement of undisclosed damage.

  2. The seller told us during the final walk through that the reason the tile in the master shower has a mosaic inlaid in a wall is because that is where the showerheads used to be. The showerheads, valves, and piping were moved from one side of the shower that is on an exterior wall to the other side of the shower that is on an interior wall, because the water supply pipe in the exterior wall froze.

    This was nowhere mentioned in the seller's disclosure.

This is a "seller's market." We raised these with our real estate agent (not a very good one, we have learned), asking for some form of hold-back of the funds in escrow from which we will have the walls repaired/repainted. Our agent tells us the seller's agent said essentially "we won't repair anything. Close, don't close, we don't care. We think we sold it under market and can sell it to the next person who drives by."

The dollars involved are not trivial -- I say this because a friend got a quote to repaint the interior of his house (2 story, 2800sf) for $30K. Yes, that is a lot - but in this community every contractor & tradesman is booked out for an extended period of time - so they of course raise their prices.

What are my options? I assume I can either close or not-close. If I close, can I then repair everything and sue the seller for reimbursement? Is there some way I can apply pressure to the seller to either repair or give me a credit for the repair?

Or, because it is a seller's market, do I just eat it?

Oh - the seller's agent and my agent work for the same brokerage in the same office (Sotheby's)
Uh, did you pay for a presale inspection by a licensed inspector of your choice?
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Old 04-09-2018, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
3,827 posts, read 2,047,976 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
Uh, did you pay for a presale inspection by a licensed inspector of your choice?
Inspectors don't look behind art on the walls or move furniture.
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Old 04-09-2018, 05:25 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,740 posts, read 31,556,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike1003 View Post
Uh, did you pay for a presale inspection by a licensed inspector of your choice?
That would not have helped with the buyer's situation as no home inspector peaks under works of art.
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Old 04-09-2018, 05:27 PM
 
1,528 posts, read 724,410 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WestieJeff View Post
....Just because a pipe froze, doesn't mean there was moisture damage. I'd be way more concerned about a small in wall leak that went on for years versus a pipe freeze which was almost certainly fixed quickly.
No, the Utah disclosure bar is clearly set to 'problem', not 'damage' (review the disclosure form). The OP was clear that the pipes were moved to solve a problem and not for any other reason.
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Old 04-09-2018, 05:56 PM
 
7,695 posts, read 12,838,929 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just_because View Post
No, the Utah disclosure bar is clearly set to 'problem', not 'damage' (review the disclosure form). The OP was clear that the pipes were moved to solve a problem and not for any other reason.
Sure it was to solve a problem,
But was it a water or moisture related problem.

any attempts to repair any moisture−related damage and/or
to prevent any recurrence of water and moisture−related problems.


The key question is whether frozen pipes without any busting or leaking are considered
a water-moisture problem. I would not think they are. Lets say your outside faucets tend to freeze in the winter so you go buy styrofoam covers and that solves the problem.
Is that "water and moisture related problems"
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Old 04-09-2018, 06:02 PM
 
7,695 posts, read 12,838,929 times
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I don't even understand the concern the OP has about these moved pipes.

Would he prefer they were left where they were freezing? The change was
a good change and probably a costly one so why the concern.

Perfect example of why homeowners should not be present at a walk thru or inspection.
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Old 04-09-2018, 06:05 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
3,827 posts, read 2,047,976 times
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Even if the pipes burst, if they're fixed right away, I'm not sure that's moisture "damage". That's just being wet.

Dripping for and extended period causing mold or rot is damage.
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Old 04-10-2018, 09:57 AM
 
570 posts, read 221,565 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
This is Utah.

I looked at the disclosure form. For essentially all line items, it asks the seller, "Are you aware of any past or present.... If yes, describe...." It does this for roof, electrical, HVAC, plumbing, etc etc etc. For example,



At the end of the day, the plumbing thing isn't really a concern, I guess, other than it is indicative of the sellers not being as forthright as I would imagine they would be required to be.


The bigger issue for me is the "patch and paint" issue. From my perspective, it is damage - and damage caused in the past week or so well after all contingencies have been released.


Just because pipes in an exterior wall froze, doesn't mean they busted and leaked. I live in NC and we had a really cold winter a few years back where there were several days well below freezing. My home was on a slab at the time and we had several pipes freeze. They all thawed slowly and were fine after temps rose but we got tired of having to go to the gym for showers. I don't know if I would have necessarily disclosed that unless there was leaking or moisture damage. Seems like relocating plumbing to the interior wall was more of an upgrade to me.
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Old 04-10-2018, 10:32 AM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,740 posts, read 31,556,293 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
Even if the pipes burst, if they're fixed right away, I'm not sure that's moisture "damage". That's just being wet.

Dripping for and extended period causing mold or rot is damage.
Well if they burst they likely would have caused sheetrock damage or something else that would have qualified it for the disclosure.
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