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Old 04-10-2018, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Paranoid State
12,685 posts, read 9,443,087 times
Reputation: 14945

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
Even if the pipes burst, if they're fixed right away, I'm not sure that's moisture "damage". That's just being wet.

Dripping for and extended period causing mold or rot is damage.
Well, things are getting more interesting. According to our insurance company looking into whatever database maintains such things, the sellers filed a large insurance claim in 2015 for for “freeze water damage.” Large hasn't been defined to us as of yet.

Our insurance company, not too surprisingly, wants documentation of what actually happened and the repair to make sure the problem hasn't recurred. No, this wasn't in the disclosure.

I'm surprised. The sellers are not uneducated (he's a Neurologist) - but they do seem a bit unsophisticated. Still, I would expect they would understand that something for which they file an insurance claim is something they should disclose.



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Old 04-10-2018, 12:22 PM
 
10,768 posts, read 3,759,045 times
Reputation: 4706
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Well, things are getting more interesting. According to our insurance company looking into whatever database maintains such things, the sellers filed a large insurance claim in 2015 for for “freeze water damage.” Large hasn't been defined to us as of yet.

Our insurance company, not too surprisingly, wants documentation of what actually happened and the repair to make sure the problem hasn't recurred. No, this wasn't in the disclosure.

I'm surprised. The sellers are not uneducated (he's a Neurologist) - but they do seem a bit unsophisticated. Still, I would expect they would understand that something for which they file an insurance claim is something they should disclose.
That is hopelessly over the line. Cannot imagine how they could try and get away with that.

I find it fascinating that it happened. One would think that Park City would be one of the places where they would do the plumbing correctly for cold weather. I suppose they could have had a power outage or such and no one there but hard to believe in a big house in that part of the world.

Make me worry if the place has other buried wonders...
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:02 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
3,833 posts, read 2,058,876 times
Reputation: 10577
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Well, things are getting more interesting. According to our insurance company looking into whatever database maintains such things, the sellers filed a large insurance claim in 2015 for for “freeze water damage.” Large hasn't been defined to us as of yet.

Our insurance company, not too surprisingly, wants documentation of what actually happened and the repair to make sure the problem hasn't recurred. No, this wasn't in the disclosure.

I'm surprised. The sellers are not uneducated (he's a Neurologist) - but they do seem a bit unsophisticated. Still, I would expect they would understand that something for which they file an insurance claim is something they should disclose.


Interesting indeed. I do hope this can be cleared up... do keep us posted. Is this causing a delay on closing now or is there still time to get all the information needed?
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Old 04-10-2018, 01:13 PM
 
1,519 posts, read 567,747 times
Reputation: 2948
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Well, things are getting more interesting. According to our insurance company looking into whatever database maintains such things, the sellers filed a large insurance claim in 2015 for for “freeze water damage.” Large hasn't been defined to us as of yet.

Our insurance company, not too surprisingly, wants documentation of what actually happened and the repair to make sure the problem hasn't recurred. No, this wasn't in the disclosure.

I'm surprised. The sellers are not uneducated (he's a Neurologist) - but they do seem a bit unsophisticated. Still, I would expect they would understand that something for which they file an insurance claim is something they should disclose.


Tough call on how to proceed here. Technically, they’ve breeches contract.
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Old 04-10-2018, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Salem, OR
13,749 posts, read 31,584,066 times
Reputation: 12115
Quote:
Originally Posted by SportyandMisty View Post
Well, things are getting more interesting. According to our insurance company looking into whatever database maintains such things, the sellers filed a large insurance claim in 2015 for for “freeze water damage.” Large hasn't been defined to us as of yet.

Our insurance company, not too surprisingly, wants documentation of what actually happened and the repair to make sure the problem hasn't recurred. No, this wasn't in the disclosure.

I'm surprised. The sellers are not uneducated (he's a Neurologist) - but they do seem a bit unsophisticated. Still, I would expect they would understand that something for which they file an insurance claim is something they should disclose.


Well, that is crystal clear. They failed to disclose. So now you need to decide if that matters to you or not. You are going to ask for copies of the insurance claim and repair quotes, right?
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Old 04-10-2018, 03:42 PM
 
1,528 posts, read 727,401 times
Reputation: 2062
Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconheadWest View Post

Your second complaint is that the sellers did an upgrade to the house, and though there is no issue, you expected them to disclose a non-issue?

Doesn't sound like you want the house as these are non-issues. You only need to disclose current and on-going issues with a house that you are aware of. If the seller caught the frozen pipe and remedied the situation, there is nothing to disclose as there is no current issue.

And no, you can't sue for reimbursement because when you close, you are accepting the house in it's current and present condition.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthofHere View Post

Second issue is not an issue and needed no disclosure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by aridon View Post
Seems like minor stuff. You can either try to sweat them out for a little cash, buy the house or walk but be cautious with walking so late in the game over something so minor.

The issues as you describe them, if you brought them up to me as the seller, are minor and inconsequential.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LoriNJ View Post
Maybe they forgot. We have been in our house 34 years. No way do I remember every single repair and change we have done. I would have to write them down over a period of days as they come back to my memory and even then, I probably would forget something.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rrah View Post
Why in the world would you expect someone to disclose something that they fixed in the past unless it's a current issue?
That's over the top.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
My two cents for the OP, I don't think either of the issues you speak of are outside the realm of normal life and normal wear and tear you might expect in a 10 year old house.

Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
Every used home, will have some type of past problems/damage that was repaired. The older the home, the more there will have been. They call this normal maintenance.
.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BirdieBelle View Post
The goal here is to be realistic. The plumbing is not a disclosure problem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LordSquidworth View Post
I wouldn't even really mention the pipe thing. It was fixed so isn't an issue to worry about going forward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly237 View Post
I would think frozen pipes would be like clogged pipes. There was no damage. No need to disclose.
I would be thankful the guy did the work to put the pipes in the interior wall.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FalconheadWest View Post
There is no current issue or damage to disclose since it's been remedied, so I said it wasn't necessary to disclose.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01 View Post
They moved the shower to an inside wall so it won't freeze and put a mosaic where the old one was taken out, what you should do is thank them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
Relocating the shower head from an external wall to an internal wall to stop the water suppl line from freezing does not meet the section you are posting. What you are posting covers leaks.

Stop your whining and buy or walk away.
Quote:
Originally Posted by WestieJeff View Post
Both these issues are extremely minor.

In terms of the shower heads, I wouldn't interpret that as requiring disclosure. Just because a pipe froze, doesn't mean there was moisture damage. I'd be way more concerned about a small in wall leak that went on for years versus a pipe freeze which was almost certainly fixed quickly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kelly237 View Post
I don't even understand the concern the OP has about these moved pipes.

Would he prefer they were left where they were freezing? The change was
a good change and probably a costly one so why the concern.


Perfect example of why homeowners should not be present at a walk thru or inspection.
There were HUGE red flags all over the moved pipes. Nobody just decides to spend thousands to move pipes (that's even without any bursting/water damage) unless there is a big problem. We didn't know all the facts but something didn't smell right. Worth giving a word of caution. Maybe everything is perfectly normal. But enough smoke there. Instead many made her feel stupid at worst or basically said "don't worry" at best.

And even if they did just move the pipes and everything was perfectly normal. Shouldn't you be asking "wait a minute, this is a big house with loads of pipes. What other plumbing problems could this place have? Any others not protected from freezing?". More reasons for red flags even when we didn't know the full situation. If other pipes are not protected, remedying this could be 50k, 100k+ (if it costs 30k to paint the damn place, i can only imagine). And it's not just the pipes to worry about. OP talked about the very high cost of building labor and maybe some kind of building boom. This pipe problem suggests that there may be all kinds of other issues if the home wasn't designed, managed, built or inspected correctly. If it was slapped up by cowboys who traveled in to cash in. More reasons for huge red flags.

Aren't these reasons why people spend so much money on agents? So that they can pick up on the "little" red flags and say "maybe we need to check this out. Not right to me" Well this was not a "little" red flag. This one was huge.

Shocking. Just shocking. And I'm the problem here?

Prize goes to the agent who:
1. Said no need to disclose without even knowing the state
2. Said non-issue (uhhh, no red flags here - and called it an 'upgrade'. New carpet is an upgrade. Moving pipes around because they were likely installed in a faulty way... you ask "what the heck is going on here")
3. Gave legal advice (you can't sue).

As usual the professionals here posting in their professional capacity as licensed agents won't acknowledge their mistakes but will move on and continue to give consumers more reckless advice. For those who act as buyer's agents, we often hear how their mentality is to question everything and think first of protecting the buyer. Well this proved just the opposite. We saw a mindset of "no problem". If there was a reason to ignore it, ignore it. Comfort the buyer - no problem. Perfectly normal to move pipes around. Beautiful mosaic they put there, huh? You should thank them! Why aren't these big red flags setting off alarm bells to agents?
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:12 PM
 
Location: Finally the house is done and we are in Port St. Lucie!
3,488 posts, read 1,795,030 times
Reputation: 9683
Someone's agenda is showing. Much effort and time to scrounge around and gather quotes.

Yikes. I can almost feel the animosity someone has against agents...
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Old 04-10-2018, 04:19 PM
 
2,140 posts, read 1,153,707 times
Reputation: 4371
I stand by what I said. I'm not a realtor.

They moved the pipes, BFD. No information was given about the pipes exploding or insurance claim being filed.

The bigger issue is the lack of disclosure on the pipe bursting which was never mentioned in the OP.

These threads evolve as more information comes out. If you don't understand how that works then no one can help you. There is a big difference in saying "yah the seller moved pipes off an outside wall" and "the seller filed a major claim for water damage due to pipes freezing". The CLUE report on the property would pick up any claim. Nothing was mentioned when the posts were made, maybe there was something, maybe there wasn't. It really only impacts his ability to walk without repercussions anyway. As more information becomes available things change.

So get someone in there and look and see if it was repaired right. If it is, not a big deal. If it wasn't then walk, you have an out now because of misrepresentation.

This type of damage is only a problem if they had left the pipes on the exterior wall (future freezing) or didn't repair it properly.

Seller should of reported it, they didn't, so walk or buy it. Your choice.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Rochester, WA
3,833 posts, read 2,058,876 times
Reputation: 10577
Quote:
Originally Posted by aridon View Post
I stand by what I said. I'm not a realtor.

They moved the pipes, BFD. No information was given about the pipes exploding or insurance claim being filed.

The bigger issue is the lack of disclosure on the pipe bursting which was never mentioned in the OP.

These threads evolve as more information comes out. If you don't understand how that works then no one can help you. There is a big difference in saying "yah the seller moved pipes off an outside wall" and "the seller filed a major claim for water damage due to pipes freezing". The CLUE report on the property would pick up any claim. Nothing was mentioned when the posts were made, maybe there was something, maybe there wasn't. It really only impacts his ability to walk without repercussions anyway. As more information becomes available things change.

So get someone in there and look and see if it was repaired right. If it is, not a big deal. If it wasn't then walk, you have an out now because of misrepresentation.

This type of damage is only a problem if they had left the pipes on the exterior wall (future freezing) or didn't repair it properly.

Seller should of reported it, they didn't, so walk or buy it. Your choice.
This is a pretty good diagram of the situation.... I agree!

The OP needs to decide if this is a big deal... to them. And.... now... to the insurance company. The opinions of those people matter now... more than anyone here in the peanut gallery.
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Old 04-10-2018, 05:15 PM
 
10,768 posts, read 3,759,045 times
Reputation: 4706
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diana Holbrook View Post
This is a pretty good diagram of the situation.... I agree!

The OP needs to decide if this is a big deal... to them. And.... now... to the insurance company. The opinions of those people matter now... more than anyone here in the peanut gallery.
The underlying problem is that OP now deals with a seller who is a known liar. That complicates life.
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