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Old 04-20-2018, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Sonoran Desert, AZ
2,842 posts, read 1,164,944 times
Reputation: 6058

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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
I think "altering" is definitely a stretch.

The OP is being asked to sign a copy. The "alteration" is not material, significant, or meaningful except to the lender in whose file it will repose uncared for for may years.
It isn't even a copy, since no form was filed. Data was submitted, and what the document/form she is being asked to sign is a representation of that data. How can you alter a document if there was no document?
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Old 04-20-2018, 10:56 AM
 
4,543 posts, read 11,547,065 times
Reputation: 3063
Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
I think that there are two terms that are being confused. "Altering," and "Falsifying."

Yes, he is altering the document. But, he isn't being asked to conceal, falsify, deceive...
I agree with Mike that it is not "altering". I would call it endorsing.
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Old 04-20-2018, 11:52 AM
 
1,528 posts, read 725,886 times
Reputation: 2062
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_because View Post
Why does any of this matter? Sounds like lousy excuses for a real estate professional to be calling a consumer paranoid for asking a simple question. Are you trying to say itís ok because youíre not a mortgage advisor? Or trying to say that if itís a refi, itís ok? Highly unprofessional no matter the specific context.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
you're confusing yourself here. I never said - nor intimated - that she was paranoid. Which makes the rest of your post, as so many of them, immaterial. Her horse is dead, by her own reply, but feel free to continue beating it.
Yes, you are correct. In my post above, I should have said "Brandon's not a mortgage advisor"...' instead of "you're not a mortgage advisor".

I hereby retract my original statement subject to the updates mentioned. And my apologies for any inconvenience my typo has caused. I take full accountability that my typo may have suggested that Bo behaved unprofessionally when (on this particular occasion) he did not. We were discussing Brandon's statement where he referred to a consumer as 'paranoid'.
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:29 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,604 posts, read 55,320,924 times
Reputation: 30155
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot N Annie View Post
It isn't even a copy, since no form was filed. Data was submitted, and what the document/form she is being asked to sign is a representation of that data. How can you alter a document if there was no document?
Oh, I buy that!

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Old 04-20-2018, 01:49 PM
 
594 posts, read 275,126 times
Reputation: 2076
If the OP is that concerned and is confused about the right thing to do, why not just call the IRS, explain what's going on, and ask if signing the paper copy constitutes amending the return? I'm sure they'd be happy to answer. There's no risk - she hasn't actually DONE anything yet.

My bet is No, they don't care what you do with a piece of paper. They have your return electronically signed. Done deal as far as they're concerned.
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:54 PM
 
7,052 posts, read 3,703,852 times
Reputation: 10061
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoot N Annie View Post
It isn't even a copy, since no form was filed. Data was submitted, and what the document/form she is being asked to sign is a representation of that data. How can you alter a document if there was no document?
Agreed. The IRS likely strips all the raw data from paper filed, stores in a database, then destroys the paper. For efiles, it arrives as raw data and I highly doubt the IRS prints it out on paper. The only purpose for the "form" is to let a person visualize the data. In fact, if you login to the IRS portal you can get transcripts of your W2s and tax returns for last 3 years. You won't get a pdf in the original "form" but rather formatted data which is valid to use as representation of your return.

Some folks are being extreme calling a date/signature added an "altered document". Geez, if you crease the corner, make a smudge with a finger, or spill a drop of mustard on it, is that an "altered document"? It wasn't on the original.
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Old 04-20-2018, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,604 posts, read 55,320,924 times
Reputation: 30155
Quote:
Originally Posted by oceangaia View Post
Agreed. The IRS likely strips all the raw data from paper filed, stores in a database, then destroys the paper. For efiles, it arrives as raw data and I highly doubt the IRS prints it out on paper. The only purpose for the "form" is to let a person visualize the data.

Some folks are being extreme calling a date/signature added an "altered document". Geez, if you crease the corner, make a smudge with a finger, or spill a drop of mustard on it, is that an "altered document"? It wasn't on the original.
French's?
Or, Grey Poupon?

The details matter....

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Old 04-20-2018, 02:01 PM
 
2,393 posts, read 4,860,508 times
Reputation: 4511
I'm shocked, truly shocked, that this discussion has gone on so long.

OP displays a truly Gallic regard for documents. Documents are sacred, to be honored by a place in a clean manila folder, not to be tampered with, blessed by Authority and representing the only True Reality.

I going to print out my old tax return now. I'm going to highlight some random words, I will (incorrectly) do sums in the margins, cross out some numbers, write them in again, sketch my kitchen plans on the back, and add phone numbers for some of the more disreputable local businesses.

Come and get me copper!
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Old 04-20-2018, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,604 posts, read 55,320,924 times
Reputation: 30155
Quote:
Originally Posted by rational1 View Post
I'm shocked, truly shocked, that this discussion has gone on so long.

OP displays a truly Gallic regard for documents. Documents are sacred, to be honored by a place in a clean manila folder, not to be tampered with, blessed by Authority and representing the only True Reality.

I going to print out my old tax return now. I'm going to highlight some random words, I will (incorrectly) do sums in the margins, cross out some numbers, write them in again, sketch my kitchen plans on the back, and add phone numbers for some of the more disreputable local businesses.

Come and get me copper!
That's the Spirit!

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Old 04-20-2018, 02:21 PM
 
1,528 posts, read 725,886 times
Reputation: 2062
Quote:
Originally Posted by BijouBaby View Post
If the OP is that concerned and is confused about the right thing to do, why not just call the IRS, explain what's going on, and ask if signing the paper copy constitutes amending the return? I'm sure they'd be happy to answer. There's no risk - she hasn't actually DONE anything yet.

My bet is No, they don't care what you do with a piece of paper. They have your return electronically signed. Done deal as far as they're concerned.
This has been long resolved and courtesy flush is done. We're just now wiping our backsides....cleaning up the usual mess of misinformation, poor quality advice, lack of respect for a consumer, lack of professionalism, lack of understanding of basic things, sub-par abilities to articulate basic ideas, etc, etc. Infighting, inbreeding, lack of accountability for being incorrect, etc. You know...the usual stuff.
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