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Old 05-06-2018, 09:58 AM
 
1,528 posts, read 735,250 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
LawnGuyLand is only a sliver of the civilized world. (And their hockey team sucks.)

Buyers' Agency has been around for 40 years or more.
It is a service to buyers, when compared to unrepresented buyers and/or seller sub-agency.
It's an extremely expensive service with little accountability for value derived from the service. Buyer is led to believe it's free so doesn't really care to assess how much value from it is realized - 1k, 2k, 4k, etc. Sometimes buyers do need help with things but traditionally, you can't pick and choose what you pay for. It's all bundled together and the services to buyers are poorly defined and vague ("look out for you", etc). And the cost of just the buyer's agent part of the transaction can easily be 10k or more. Seller doesn't care what value the buyer gets out of it since he just wants to sell his house.

It may have been around for 40 years but I know of no other major market in the world with such a concept or system where sellers have very little choice but to fund a buyer's agent or have a very difficult time selling their home. Or is it the buyer who's paying? Who knows. Nobody can agree. Too complicated. Too expensive. Too convoluted. And it's a very bad system for consumers.
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Old 05-06-2018, 11:17 AM
Status: "Planning for the future." (set 5 days ago)
 
Location: Just south of Denver since 1989
10,688 posts, read 28,559,803 times
Reputation: 6860
Must be because of our MLS. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mult...isting_service

Unilateral offer of compensation and cooperation.
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Old 05-06-2018, 01:44 PM
 
4,148 posts, read 3,487,470 times
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10% is not unusual for ranches in western states.
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Old 05-07-2018, 12:26 PM
 
Location: All Over
3,971 posts, read 4,223,197 times
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Let's be honest and frank about realtors. We are going to have some people on these boards act like realtors are gods gift to the world, and then we have other people who give them no credit at all and I have a feeling OP this is kind of a trash realtors post.

A great realtor can be worth every penny, many realtors however are nothing more than glorified door openers.

Do me a good realtor is someone who knows the market, has connections with other realtors, lenders, laywers, home inspectors, does a lot of the legwork for you so you can work your job and live your life and let them deal with the headaches they are paid to deal with.

I think the real estate industry is one that's due for a shakeup, most other industries are being disrupted by technology like the taxi industry by uber. That is kind of what Redfin is doing.

I used Redfin as a buyer and absolutely loved the experience. Shortly after my folks needed to sell, I highly recommended Redfin. They talked to a Redfin agent and another traditional agent. They were torn but ultimately eing that they were out of town sellers so thought a traditional realtor may bring more value than a redfin realtor.

The realtor they chose talked a good game about how she would come take the garbage out for them, she would come early and turn on the lights and air before showings, would do staging, basically just little extras and go above and beyond. I don't necessarilly expect a realtor to do these things but when deciding between saving about 7k going with reddit versus paying more and being promised a higher level of service my folks ultimately decided to go with the more expensive remax realtor.

Well as I expected would happen as soon as they signed the contract she all the sudden wasn't so willing to do all this stuff she promised to sell them. I live 2 towns over and i was the one going over to meet handymen, going over to take out the trash, etc, etc, etc.

I don't doubt a great realtor is worth their weight in gold and can get you tens of thousands moer than you would have otherwise gotten, but lets also be honest and every unemployed out of work person at some point attempts to be a realtor. Every recent divorcee does a stint in real estate. There's such a low bar to entry ie a course for $300 and your in business so the quality is going to be all over the place.

I would say there's a lot more overpaid door openers than there are quality realtors which begs the question is it worth 7%? or 6% or 5%? I am seeing the trend going lower in temrs of percentage of sale, proably party due to Redfin as well as partly due to the internet allowing most people to do their own legwork. When I worked with a realtor I may have them call and ask a question, look at something a bit deeper in MLS but ultimately I basically found my own houses and then asked him to show them to me.
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Old 05-07-2018, 01:57 PM
 
1,379 posts, read 542,482 times
Reputation: 2402
Quote:
Originally Posted by just_because View Post
It's an extremely expensive service with little accountability for value derived from the service. Buyer is led to believe it's free so doesn't really care to assess how much value from it is realized - 1k, 2k, 4k, etc. Sometimes buyers do need help with things but traditionally, you can't pick and choose what you pay for. It's all bundled together and the services to buyers are poorly defined and vague ("look out for you", etc). And the cost of just the buyer's agent part of the transaction can easily be 10k or more. Seller doesn't care what value the buyer gets out of it since he just wants to sell his house.

It may have been around for 40 years but I know of no other major market in the world with such a concept or system where sellers have very little choice but to fund a buyer's agent or have a very difficult time selling their home. Or is it the buyer who's paying? Who knows. Nobody can agree. Too complicated. Too expensive. Too convoluted. And it's a very bad system for consumers.
What is the difference between a buyers agent and a regular agent you go to to find you a home? Are they not one in the same thing although maybe in that a buyers agent actually has an agreement with the buyer to sell them a home whereas a regular agent may not ask you to sign any agreement with them. It is not a bad system for either buyer or seller. As a buyer I want to go to one person who will take me around to all houses I either ask to see or they think I might like. I don't want to have to look on the internet, though I will anyway, and then contact the realtor selling each house I want to look at to see it wasting my valuable time, especially if I am in a relocation situation and am limited in time to look.



As a seller I want my home open to every buyer out there as quickly as possible; therefore allowing other realtors to show the house and get a commission for doing so is a good thing.

If I wanted to have the one realtor selling it would be me and I would list for sale by owner. If as you and others imply that people should look on the internet why have a realtor in the first place?

Maybe I am misunderstanding all this hoopla over splitting commissions but commissions have been split for much more than 40 years. I think the complaints should be from realtors having to split their share with their broker.
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Old 05-07-2018, 03:49 PM
 
Location: Tennessee at last!
1,870 posts, read 1,741,277 times
Reputation: 3716
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
and a remote seller trying to settle a deceased/infirmed relative's home.
I went for the standard 6%, normal stuff, but she will send me the mail that does not get forwarded every week or so. Mailman is getting better at it, but still not at 100%, everyday yet.

Too many others want stuff, and Aunt had a set of 'rules' on who gets what. So I need to watch it. Lots more work for me, but what Auntie wanted, she will get. And for the extra stuff, kids and I are getting way too good at cleaning out houses, unfortunately.

I am paying cleaners, etc. directly through the mail, and choose them too.
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Old 05-07-2018, 04:13 PM
 
Location: Tennessee at last!
1,870 posts, read 1,741,277 times
Reputation: 3716
Quote:
Originally Posted by jm1982 View Post
Interesting . what was the lowest commission and what services did she offer for that one?
5% was the lowest with a 2.5% split.

For that it was her 'basic' service.

Listing on MLS, her website, and all the others that harvest data.

Professional photos, 'enhanced' photo where they put in pretend furniture in an empty room.

Keys outside in a lockbox.

Coordinates with buyer's agents.

Screens buyers for ability to close prior to accepting/presenting offers.

Coordinates with title/escrow to make sure the contract is followed through closing.

Will forward comments about home, why potential buyer is not interested, but does not solicit it if they agent does not provide the information on the follow up form.

Sends out a weekly e-mail about things to do/think abut relating to selling e.g. curb appeal, front door appeal, bathroom, kitchen, closets, maintenance things, each week it focuses on something that you might want to do to make your home present better.

Initial walk through with suggestions on how to prep the house for sale, market analysis, etc.

Basic agent stuff, but no handholding, constant contact, calls.

NOTE: She does not represent the buyer in any transaction, but would refer buyers to other agents. And that is for all price levels.

At 6% she does some coordination with other agents, will check the actual house that they did in fact close the windows, turn off things and actually lock all the doors. (Which I needed as I am not there.) Will do minor special services, like check that the yard is actually being tended to by the gardener and tell the seller if there is an issue, forward mail, etc.
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Old 05-07-2018, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
7,831 posts, read 6,182,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just_because View Post
Yes, the buyer's agent system drives up overall commission transaction costs for buying and selling homes. That's not a good thing. With two mouths to feed in the transaction, the ability to drive down commission costs is more difficult.

There is also very little choice in the matter. Buyers can decide not to use a buyer's agent but that does not necessarily translate into a reduction in your cost as it's built into the 'system'. You might be in a better negotiating position but the impact of deciding to forgo a buyer's agent does not directly impact your cost.
the problem herein is your understanding of the agency system in the US over time, in the majority of the country.

You might say that Buyer agency KEEPS the commission high. But the commission rate to the seller hasn't increased from for example, 3% in 1980, to for example, 6% now. It's always been for example, 6%.

For decades, we operated under seller subagency - both agents represented the Seller. Yes, a Buyer had an agent that told them about houses, showed them houses, wrote the offer, helped navigate the closing process, etc. But legally, they worked for and were paid by the Seller. (to one of your other favorite arguments, that NAR release that mentioned cooperation was MUCH more relevant to that time than 2007 or 2018).

Then, somewhere about 30 years ago, Buyer Agency was created to provide representation to the Buyer. And just as the example 6% had been split between Seller's Agent and Subagent (Buyer Agent), it was still split.

And back then, should the Buyer go directly to the Listing Agent - the commission was STILL the example 6%. There never would have been any agreement in writing between the Seller and the Listing Agent to reduce the compensation should the Listing Agent secure the Buyer.
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Old 05-07-2018, 06:32 PM
 
1,528 posts, read 735,250 times
Reputation: 2062
Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
the problem herein is your understanding of the agency system in the US over time, in the majority of the country.

You might say that Buyer agency KEEPS the commission high. But the commission rate to the seller hasn't increased from for example, 3% in 1980, to for example, 6% now. It's always been for example, 6%.

For decades, we operated under seller subagency - both agents represented the Seller. Yes, a Buyer had an agent that told them about houses, showed them houses, wrote the offer, helped navigate the closing process, etc. But legally, they worked for and were paid by the Seller. (to one of your other favorite arguments, that NAR release that mentioned cooperation was MUCH more relevant to that time than 2007 or 2018).

Then, somewhere about 30 years ago, Buyer Agency was created to provide representation to the Buyer. And just as the example 6% had been split between Seller's Agent and Subagent (Buyer Agent), it was still split.

And back then, should the Buyer go directly to the Listing Agent - the commission was STILL the example 6%. There never would have been any agreement in writing between the Seller and the Listing Agent to reduce the compensation should the Listing Agent secure the Buyer.
Yes, I agree with you. The buyer's agent system keeps the commission high. By 'drives up' I meant 'puts upward pressure on'. I was not commenting on how commission rates are today vs 50 years ago.

Your history lesson does not disprove my points at all. Nor does it demonstrate that I don't understand the agency system. I'm talking about the way things are now not 50 years ago. Are you saying that the NAR statement on the principles of the MLS is wrong? Why don't they mention buyer's agency in the discussion of how buyer's agents cooperate with sellers agents to sell the house? The model hasn't fundamentally changed would be my answer to that. Buyer's agent is still paid by a commission split. And they're still paid by SALES COMMISSION. This makes them salespeople at the core, not advisors. So the fundamental principles of the cooperative selling model have not changed. The split commission compensation model is fundamental to the MLS. It's a cornerstone to the whole thing. And that has remained in situ for decades. I would consider the NAR themselves in their formal statements to be a credible source for this.
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Old 05-07-2018, 08:29 PM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
7,831 posts, read 6,182,232 times
Reputation: 6947
well, it's not like I actually expected you to accept the reality of it. But it did tie in quite nicely for you. I don't know what your actual profession is, but I'd like to think that if I got in over my had, and you explained some minuitae to me, that I would respond "Ahhh, I did not know that."

It's rather too bad that you weren't there when Buyer Agency was created, so you could have helped them make it so Sellers only paid 3% for example, and the Buyers were now responsible for the 3% example of their Agents.

But now we're just off-topic again.
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