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Old 06-22-2018, 03:06 PM
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Location: Ohio
16,451 posts, read 32,292,131 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kell490 View Post
Your information is incorrect it was the insurance company that had the authority to take the settlement they chose go to trial not the HOA.

"The (HOA) board didn't have authority," McKelleb explained. "The policy provided that authority to the insurance carrier... The insurance company turned that down and went to trial."
This is typical of HOA insurance policies. As soon as the HOA is sued, the insurance company's legal team takes absolute control of the defense against the suit, and they will seek a quick settlement. When I was on my HOA board, our attorney warned us about this.

IMO, it was actually reassuring as a board member not to have to worry about making legal missteps that could affect the case. You don't have to worry, because the decisions are out of your hands at that point. That should be reassuring to homeowners that the lawsuit is being addressed by experts, rather than a handful of neighbors who are no more expert about law and the courts than they are.
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:17 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
19,129 posts, read 10,162,210 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldtrader View Post
With the low cost to have a $1,000,000 umbrella policy, it is crazy not to have one.

https://www.allstate.com/tools-and-r...insurance.aspx
Umbrella policies don't automatically cover loss assessments, and when they do, it's sometimes with a $50K deductible with the intention that the insured get a separate loss assessment increase on their homeowners insurance instead. It's something that anyone living in an HOA needs to go over specifically with their insurance agent.
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Old 06-22-2018, 03:43 PM
 
5,612 posts, read 4,182,002 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
Umbrella policies don't automatically cover loss assessments, and when they do, it's sometimes with a $50K deductible with the intention that the insured get a separate loss assessment increase on their homeowners insurance instead. It's something that anyone living in an HOA needs to go over specifically with their insurance agent.
I have a separate loss risk assessment rider on my townhome policy. It costs me $17 a year for 50K in coverage. My umbrella policy covers someone injured on my property and the loss risk assessment rider pays in the event of an assessment due to a judgement exceeding the master policy’s liability coverage (like the one in this thread) where someone is injured on common HOA property and sues. Anyone living in an HOA should have both.
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Old 06-22-2018, 05:33 PM
 
1,953 posts, read 766,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
I believe there was a settlement within the policy limits but the HOA foolishly decided to go to court. I understand the HOA is appealing the decision so no money has changed hands yet.

Of the thousands of HOAs, this one isolated case should not be a deciding factor.

If paranoid, I assume one could purchase some type of personal insurance to protect one's self in an incident such as this.
Ignore such incidents at your peril. This is just another reason why HOAs are not only useless baggage, but actually financially dangerous to their residents. There is not a single thing any HOA provides (that isn't also morally reprehensible, such as keeping the "riff-raff" out where "riff-raff" is defined as anybody you happen to be bigoted against, and yes, lots of HOAs do their best to do just that) that isn't already provided by regular city services. That includes issues of lawn maintenance.

HOAs should be outlawed. They serve no useful function.
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Old 06-22-2018, 05:57 PM
 
Location: The analog world
15,931 posts, read 8,854,734 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
Umbrella policies don't automatically cover loss assessments, and when they do, it's sometimes with a $50K deductible with the intention that the insured get a separate loss assessment increase on their homeowners insurance instead. It's something that anyone living in an HOA needs to go over specifically with their insurance agent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by UNC4Me View Post
I have a separate loss risk assessment rider on my townhome policy. It costs me $17 a year for 50K in coverage. My umbrella policy covers someone injured on my property and the loss risk assessment rider pays in the event of an assessment due to a judgement exceeding the master policyís liability coverage (like the one in this thread) where someone is injured on common HOA property and sues. Anyone living in an HOA should have both.
Thank you for this information. I will be calling my insurance agent next week to address this potential vulnerability in our coverage.
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Old 06-22-2018, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Philadelphia/South Jersey area
2,339 posts, read 1,064,986 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
Did you start this chat with the intention of bashing HOAs?
yep
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Old 06-24-2018, 02:59 PM
 
Location: Barrington
42,129 posts, read 31,869,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rational1 View Post
The same thing could happen to an individual homeowner with a 1M umbrella policy...so what do you consider is an adequate amount of insurance for a homeowner? For an HOA??
Mine carries $25 million. We have a playground, pool, private lake and tennis courts. 50+ years without a claim.

Most liability plans in most states give the insurer the right to override the insuredís willingness to settle and take it to a jury. When that happens, itís on the insurer, not the insured.

Where it can get dicey is when the HOA does not carry adequate or in some cases any liability insurance. Some states require HOAs to do so and some do not.

In cases of inadequate or no insurance, a court could issue an order to garnish the associationís future income ( homeowner assessments).

States license and regulate insurers and no two states do it the same way.
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:23 PM
 
Location: Barrington
42,129 posts, read 31,869,321 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyewackette View Post
Ignore such incidents at your peril. This is just another reason why HOAs are not only useless baggage, but actually financially dangerous to their residents. There is not a single thing any HOA provides (that isn't also morally reprehensible, such as keeping the "riff-raff" out where "riff-raff" is defined as anybody you happen to be bigoted against, and yes, lots of HOAs do their best to do just that) that isn't already provided by regular city services. That includes issues of lawn maintenance.

HOAs should be outlawed. They serve no useful function.
According to this link, there were 310,000 HOA - governed ( single family, multi family and condos) communities in the US. 8000 are created annually.

States with the most HOAs include Florida,California, Texas, North Carolina, NY, Massechuttes, Georgia, Washington and Colorado.

https://www.ikocommunitymanagement.c...make-you-proud

In some states it’s nearly impossible for a developer to build without being required by the state/ county/ municipality to form an HOA to relieve the burden on preexisting communities.

No 2 associations are alike. Some trend no rules outside of common recreational elements (my association) to dictating the color of petunias one can plant.

I am a long time board member in my HOA. One of the more challenging aspects is not having rules and not engaging in neighbor to neighbor disputes. Our streets are public roads. You want a purple roof? Go for it. Your neighbors will hate you but the HOA is not going to interfere.

Despite the lack of rules, thus far no one has chosen to do anything outrageous.

The community was built before the municipality had a park district, municipal pool, tennis courts and so on. It made sense back when. 50 years later, HOA residents pay an Annual Assessment to the HOA and are dinged for the park district on their property tax bills. The line item on my tax bill is greater than my HOA Assessment.

No one is forced to live in an HOA.
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Old 06-26-2018, 01:39 AM
 
3,022 posts, read 1,983,397 times
Reputation: 3366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo View Post
This is typical of HOA insurance policies. As soon as the HOA is sued, the insurance company's legal team takes absolute control of the defense against the suit, and they will seek a quick settlement. When I was on my HOA board, our attorney warned us about this.

IMO, it was actually reassuring as a board member not to have to worry about making legal missteps that could affect the case. You don't have to worry, because the decisions are out of your hands at that point. That should be reassuring to homeowners that the lawsuit is being addressed by experts, rather than a handful of neighbors who are no more expert about law and the courts than they are.
So if the insurance company "takes control" are they on the hook for any amount over the 2 million dollar policy limit if they lose the lawsuit as in this case I seriously doubt it? Lets just say as some have put it here that insurance company is now responsible for the loss of the lawsuit why get a 2 million dollar policy why not just get $100000 which would have a lot lower premiums there is no risk to the HOA, and residents. Someone either takes the 100k settlement or they sue, but if the HOA loses the lawsuit the insurance company is to blame because they chose to go to court. You see how stupid that logic sounds that's why I predicting now this HOA lawsuit against the insurance company won't amount to much.
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Old 06-26-2018, 04:07 AM
 
65,000 posts, read 66,481,576 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
I believe there was a settlement within the policy limits but the HOA foolishly decided to go to court. I understand the HOA is appealing the decision so no money has changed hands yet.

Of the thousands of HOAs, this one isolated case should not be a deciding factor.

If paranoid, I assume one could purchase some type of personal insurance to protect one's self in an incident such as this.
actually your own liability umbrella or homeowners may not cover you , it depends on the cause of the injury .

the question came up in our hoa when someone asked about the fact that patrolling the development was handled by civilians who live there .

what if they chased some kids out on a snow mobile or rtv and the kids were hurt in the process and were awarded more than the hoa insurance . .

the answer we got surprised us . we are not covered for events caused by others , only by those insured under the household member definition .

i called my insurer who confirmed , law suits caused by non insured would not be covered even though it is a reason we are being sued .
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