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Old 06-30-2018, 05:56 PM
 
1,068 posts, read 343,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
1. Is there an obligation for the 7 acres to be part of the subdivision? Did the restrictive covenants provide that the declarant could withdraw land from the CCRs if it wanted to? If so then there was no reason to expect there to be a 7 acre green space to an HOA.

2. Did the local government require the acreage as part of the approval process for the subdivision? If not then on what basis do you believe the 7 acres must remain as green space or otherwise remain as part of the subdivision?

3. There is no upside to an HOA.
Per the declaration:

1) the 7 acres is obligated to be part of Phase I of the subdivision, No the covenants do not provide that the declaration could withdraw land from the CCRs for any reason.

2) Yes. There was supposed to be 31 acres designated for greenspace to Phase I. The property was illegally separated into a 24 acre R2 zoned subdivision which has been sold and the remaining 7 acres. This has been acknowledged by the current county commission (illegally rezoning took place 15 years ago).

3) You and I (and the residents of the HOA disagree).
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Old 06-30-2018, 06:57 PM
 
2,749 posts, read 3,172,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Jasper View Post
Per the declaration:

1) the 7 acres is obligated to be part of Phase I of the subdivision, No the covenants do not provide that the declaration could withdraw land from the CCRs for any reason.

2) Yes. There was supposed to be 31 acres designated for greenspace to Phase I. The property was illegally separated into a 24 acre R2 zoned subdivision which has been sold and the remaining 7 acres. This has been acknowledged by the current county commission (illegally rezoning took place 15 years ago).
I think you are starting to see that these representations are not particularly obligatory on the person making the declaration. Without seeing the actual document it's difficult to say much more. However, if you bought back then you might have pursued legal action back then. If you purchased more recently then you did so knowing the green space did not exist as represented.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Jasper View Post
3) You and I (and the residents of the HOA disagree).
Well I don't particularly give weight to someone claiming to be speaking on behalf of others particularly when HOAs are involved. You are not a "resident" of an HOA. You own land burdened with restrictive covenants that provide for involuntary membership in an HOA - that may or may not exist.

Is the period of declarant control over? If you and the other residents are so gung-ho to impose perpetual liens on your property and a corporate overlord everyone must get permission from to do anything then why don't you get the requisite number of homeowners to amend the restrictive covenants?
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:24 PM
 
1,068 posts, read 343,585 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
I think you are starting to see that these representations are not particularly obligatory on the person making the declaration. Without seeing the actual document it's difficult to say much more. However, if you bought back then you might have pursued legal action back then. If you purchased more recently then you did so knowing the green space did not exist as represented.



Well I don't particularly give weight to someone claiming to be speaking on behalf of others particularly when HOAs are involved. You are not a "resident" of an HOA. You own land burdened with restrictive covenants that provide for involuntary membership in an HOA - that may or may not exist.

Is the period of declarant control over? If you and the other residents are so gung-ho to impose perpetual liens on your property and a corporate overlord everyone must get permission from to do anything then why don't you get the requisite number of homeowners to amend the restrictive covenants?
The Declaration clearly states that membership in the HOA is mandatory.

I am not really concerned with whether or not you give weight to me claiming to be speaking on behalf of others. However, I would not be here had the residents requested my action.

The Declaration is describes the period as being 2 years after the last lot is sold or until the Declarant surrenders authority of the HOA, which at this point does not exist. We still have a potential 20 months to go.

I did locate an attorney that confirmed the responsibility of the Declarant and we are entertaining our options.
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Old 07-10-2018, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
31,666 posts, read 55,462,661 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mad_Jasper View Post
The Declaration clearly states that membership in the HOA is mandatory.

I am not really concerned with whether or not you give weight to me claiming to be speaking on behalf of others. However, I would not be here had the residents requested my action.

The Declaration is describes the period as being 2 years after the last lot is sold or until the Declarant surrenders authority of the HOA, which at this point does not exist. We still have a potential 20 months to go.

I did locate an attorney that confirmed the responsibility of the Declarant and we are entertaining our options.
Chill. You are being trolled.

I am just glad you found a real attorney for consultation. Good luck.
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Old 07-12-2018, 07:17 PM
 
2,749 posts, read 3,172,073 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
Chill. You are being trolled.

I am just glad you found a real attorney for consultation. Good luck.
Says the guy that profits from the churn in HOA property....

No problem finding an attorney to take his money to burden his property with an HOA and perpetual liens. It would be interesting to check back in a few years and see how that worked out....
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Old 07-13-2018, 01:03 AM
 
1,525 posts, read 575,801 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
1. Is there an obligation for the 7 acres to be part of the subdivision? Did the restrictive covenants provide that the declarant could withdraw land from the CCRs if it wanted to? If so then there was no reason to expect there to be a 7 acre green space to an HOA.

2. Did the local government require the acreage as part of the approval process for the subdivision? If not then on what basis do you believe the 7 acres must remain as green space or otherwise remain as part of the subdivision?

3. There is no upside to an HOA.
The upside is that they get to keep the seven acres, and tie them in a bind that can’t be resold. How they write the bylaws and covenants determines whether they’ll be the same type of entity that offends you.

You seem to think that all POA/HOA are the same. They’re not.

OP - that attorney is the right move. Just make sure that whatever covenants and bylaws you write give the HOA only power over those 7 acres.
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Old 07-18-2018, 11:19 AM
 
2,749 posts, read 3,172,073 times
Reputation: 2943
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoamingTX View Post
The upside is that they get to keep the seven acres, and tie them in a bind that can’t be resold. How they write the bylaws and covenants determines whether they’ll be the same type of entity that offends you.
"They" keep nothing. The seven acres would be conveyed by the developer (if the developer decides to do so) and then owned by the HOA corporation. This requires developer co-operation which they don't currently have anyway. Once it is conveyed to the HOA corporation it could still be conveyed later or borrowed against by the HOA corporation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoamingTX View Post
You seem to think that all POA/HOA are the same. They’re not.
The same personalities will be found in every economic strata regardless of whether it is a trailer park or an enclave of multi-million dollar homes. It is inevitable that there will be a few that want to control the HOA corporation in order to force their neighbors to come groveling to them for "permission" and to otherwise control neighbors' use and enjoyment of the neighbors' lots.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RoamingTX View Post
OP - that attorney is the right move. Just make sure that whatever covenants and bylaws you write give the HOA only power over those 7 acres.
The covenants were already there and already dictate how homeowners must get permission, pay assessments, liens, enforcement, etc. by/to the HOA corporation. It was written to give a developer-controlled HOA control over all the property. Their alleged "problem" is the HOA corporation was not created. (Depending upon how the restrictive covenants were written, however, they might actually have one and not realize it)

The developer holds all the cards right now. The entire process will ultimately require co-operation from the developer - which they do not have. The OP did not provide a copy of the restrictions. I suspect the restrictions were written so the developer can turn around and unilaterally amend the restrictive covenants anyway and pull the rug out from almost any offensive maneuver the OP is contemplating. The restrictions were never written for the benefit of the purchasers but rather for the benefit of the developer, its financiers, local government, and the vendors.
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