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Old 11-18-2018, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Florida -
8,303 posts, read 10,093,470 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
I know it's pretty standard that most sale offers are pending inspection. How common is it for an offer to be pending inspection AND review of HOA Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions (CC&Rs)?

We hear so many horror stories involving HOAs. I already have plans to build a solarium on the backyard patio and install an eight foot fence when I buy my new house. These are musts for me. I just need to know that the HOA won't give me trouble later.


Any thoughts? Do buyers ask to review the CC&Rs?
Wherever HOA's exist smart buyers both request and review CC&Rs. However, the review period is open for a limited time, not an indefinite period bound only by the buyer "getting around to it."

IMO (and experience), the 'horror stories involving HOAs' are more often a result of buyers who agree to abide by, buy, fail to read or heed the CC&Rs ('docs') -- They are then astonished and often outraged that the rules also apply to them!
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Old 11-18-2018, 01:41 PM
 
12,925 posts, read 12,234,691 times
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Originally Posted by North Beach Person View Post
It's a requirement in Maryland and a reason for no fault offer cancellation if the buyer finds something he doesn't like in the documents.
Same in Florida.
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Old 11-18-2018, 01:42 PM
 
9,452 posts, read 7,420,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidValleyDad View Post
An 8 ft fence would be a killer here due to zoning in most places. 6' is generally the highest residential fence allowed. That wouldn't show up in HOA rules it would be in municipal or county zoning regs. The Solarium would also be subject to zoning as well as HOA rules. Don't just concentrate on the HOA.
Good to know. Thanks.
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Old 11-18-2018, 01:50 PM
 
2,751 posts, read 2,824,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Really? The fence is nothing more than a regular privacy fence. Instead of the standard 6 ft., I want 8 ft. high. That's not that much of a big difference.

The solarium is nothing more than a sunroom or glass enclosed porch added to the back patio. If someone case screen in their patio, then using glass isn't that different.

Does anyone have any experience with HOAs and fences or sunrooms? Would it be appropriate to contact the HOA during the offer/inspection process?



We had a case in our town where some put a roof over a patio. A couple years later they screened it it. A couple years later the new owners 'weatherized it so they could use it later in the fall and earlier in the spring. Then they closed in the sidewalls to give them more privacy. A year later the neighbors complained that the casemate windows they had installed swung over the property line (This was a townhouse) and impinged on the neighbors patio. The Planning Commission researched it and found there had never been a permit pulled for any of the work. The patio was sinking since it didn't have footers to support the roof and subsequent snow load. They were forced to return it to the original open patio and the town started monitoring permits much closer.


I previously mentioned concerns with fences.8 ft is a 33% increase over 6'. And neighborhoods don't like non standard heights. If 6' doesn't give you enough privacy why do you think 8' would? Any second story windows are at least 14' in the air so they would still be able to see in. If privacy is that much of a concern you may need to locate in a more remote area.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:21 PM
 
9,452 posts, read 7,420,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidValleyDad View Post
I previously mentioned concerns with fences.8 ft is a 33% increase over 6'. And neighborhoods don't like non standard heights. If 6' doesn't give you enough privacy why do you think 8' would? Any second story windows are at least 14' in the air so they would still be able to see in. If privacy is that much of a concern you may need to locate in a more remote area.
If I have to make due with 6 ft., I'll live with it. A quick Google search shows that fence post capital can be up to two additional feet. I wonder if I could have a 6 ft fence and have 2 ft capital posts connected by lattice.

I've been looking into municipal rules around enclosed patios. The house will probably have a regular concrete slab patio but I'll most likely have to have it ripped out and replaced with one that has extra support to bear the weight of the enclosed sunroom.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:25 PM
 
1,040 posts, read 300,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Really? The fence is nothing more than a regular privacy fence. Instead of the standard 6 ft., I want 8 ft. high. That's not that much of a big difference.

The solarium is nothing more than a sunroom or glass enclosed porch added to the back patio. If someone case screen in their patio, then using glass isn't that different.

Does anyone have any experience with HOAs and fences or sunrooms? Would it be appropriate to contact the HOA during the offer/inspection process?
As far as the sunroom, it could depend on where it is added to that back patio. The end furthest from the house...or attached to the house. When you said solarium first, I was picturing more a glass house separated somewhat from the main house.

I know hoas that prescribe the type of screen one can have on a porch. A friend told me about her neighbor who wanted some sort of extra strong screen because of her cats but it wouldn't match the other screens on other porches so she was told no.

We've been in a few places where it's actually difficult to find non-hoa neighborhoods. I have noticed people who then decided to buy in the hoas and quietly put in low dark screening instead of fencing. And bushes around the screening so it wasn't obvious, or some sort of loosely made deer fencing that didn't stand out at all.

Here's another idea. A pool. Then the hoas would be likely be required to allow a fence. If they allowed a pool. But it would be the minimum height fence required by the city/town/county. (Wonder what the minimum requirement is for a "pool" that requires a fence by law.)

There is much more than just the sunroom and fencing that you need to find out about from any sharing-type community. Debts, loans, condition of the amenities, timing for repairs, upkeep not just of any home outsides but ... whatever...lighting, trash, tree or snow removal, pool, tennis court upkeep, parking lot upkeep, trails, how will the expenses be paid, is there paid staff with benefits, ratio of renters which effects financing, does it look like they'll stay afloat, do they have a study of the life of whatever the board or manager is responsible for.

The thing is a hoa is, by definition, an association. And an association is...a group.

Let us know how your group looks to be working. Hope you reach a happy medium in your new home.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:27 PM
 
1,040 posts, read 300,839 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
If I have to make due with 6 ft., I'll live with it. A quick Google search shows that fence post capital can be up to two additional feet. I wonder if I could have a 6 ft fence and have 2 ft capital posts connected by lattice.

I've been looking into municipal rules around enclosed patios. The house will probably have a regular concrete slab patio but I'll most likely have to have it ripped out and replaced with one that has extra support to bear the weight of the enclosed sunroom.
Remember municipal codes are just a starting point with HOAs. They can have their own even more restrictive codes. But then they can also have more fun like pools and tennis etc. I should add that in many hoas, the fence issue won't be 6' or 8', but allowing fences at all. Sometimes a realtor will know just where the hoas are that meet your fence needs. Give that a try. (You'd still have to recheck that the rule hasn't been changed since a fence is important to you.)
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:37 PM
 
2,751 posts, read 2,824,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
If I have to make due with 6 ft., I'll live with it. A quick Google search shows that fence post capital can be up to two additional feet. I wonder if I could have a 6 ft fence and have 2 ft capital posts connected by lattice.


The answer (at least here) is a resounding NO. Been tried. When told to take it down they tried to get a zoning text amendment, When they failed at that they took the town to court. Two years and a lot of expense for the town and the homeowner later the answer was still NO. And now it is enshrined in case law which means it is precident for anywhere in the state.
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:52 PM
 
2,751 posts, read 2,824,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petsandgardens View Post
Remember municipal codes are just a starting point with HOAs. They can have their own even more restrictive codes. But then they can also have more fun like pools and tennis etc. I should add that in many hoas, the fence issue won't be 6' or 8', but allowing fences at all. Sometimes a realtor will know just where the hoas are that meet your fence needs. Give that a try. (You'd still have to recheck that the rule hasn't been changed since a fence is important to you.)

HOA rules and Municipal codes are two different worlds. They have nothing to do with each other. We have 3 HOAs in our town and every couple years we have someone who wants the town to enforce the HOA rules. Or someone who gets approval from an HOA only to find that dioesn't relieve them of the need to get a Town permit (fences and sheds are common issues). And we have had a few who play the old 'Mom against Dad' telling the Town that the HOA is okay with it and the HOA that the Town is okay with it when neither has given approval. I spent over 8 years on Board of Appeals and the Planning Commission. Some of the best entertainment you can get on a winter evening listening to people explain why their tract home is different and special from the ones around it. Of course most issues are more routine and I can look at some development (especially commercial) where Town Residents and folks outside town are very happy with how we dug in and gotten National Companies and regional developers to make their plans fit into the character of our town. And help property owners make reasonable plans work (Modern Zoning doesn't always work well with lots that were laid out 150 years ago)
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Old 11-18-2018, 02:59 PM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,251 posts, read 39,528,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MidValleyDad View Post
HOA rules and Municipal codes are two different worlds. They have nothing to do with each other. We have 3 HOAs in our town and every couple years we have someone who wants the town to enforce the HOA rules. Or someone who gets approval from an HOA only to find that dioesn't relieve them of the need to get a Town permit (fences and sheds are common issues). And we have had a few who play the old 'Mom against Dad' telling the Town that the HOA is okay with it and the HOA that the Town is okay with it when neither has given approval. I spent over 8 years on Board of Appeals and the Planning Commission. Some of the best entertainment you can get on a winter evening listening to people explain why their tract home is different and special from the ones around it. Of course most issues are more routine and I can look at some development (especially commercial) where Town Residents and folks outside town are very happy with how we dug in and gotten National Companies and regional developers to make their plans fit into the character of our town. And help property owners make reasonable plans work (Modern Zoning doesn't always work well with lots that were laid out 150 years ago)
They're different worlds but are interconnected. No, the Town doesn't care what color your door is (well at least not yet. We do have a group of residents urging a color pallette be required in Zoning), that's your HOA. We do, however, care that you do indeed have a door (true story, someone didn't want to put a solid door in but just have a screen door).
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