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Old 11-19-2018, 08:15 AM
 
12,926 posts, read 12,234,691 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sunshine Rules View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by North Beach Person
It's a requirement in Maryland and a reason for no fault offer cancellation if the buyer finds something he doesn't like in the documents.

Same in Florida.



This is incorrect, it is not a requirement in Florida for HOAs. The only requirement is that it must be disclosed if there is a mandatory HOA.

Effective July 1, 2003, it is the responsibility of the Seller(s) to disclose to the Buyer(s) that they are purchasing a home in a community where there is a mandatory homeowners' association, that there are or will be recorded restrictive covenants governing the use and occupancy of properties in the community and that there are assessments.

The disclosure must be given to the Buyer(s) before a sales contract is executed.

The language required for the disclosure is specified by FL statute 720.401

There is no requirement that allows Buyer(s) to cancel if they find something they don't like in the HOA documents. I think the poster is confused by language within the actual disclosure that states that if the DISCLOSURE SUMMARY is not provided to a prospective purchaser before the purchaser executes a contract for the sale of property governed by covenants that are subject to disclosure pursuant to this section, the purchaser may void the contract by delivering to the seller or the sellerís agent or representative written notice canceling the contract within 3 days after receipt of the disclosure summary or prior to closing, whichever occurs first.


Therefore if you are looking to purchase a home in FL that is located within a mandatory HOA, be sure to read the HOA documents before you submit an offer, not after.
Lol, thanks for the correction, I actually responded to the wrong post. But glad you pointed it out to ensure no misinformation.
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Old 11-19-2018, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Raleigh NC
7,908 posts, read 6,238,066 times
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The laws of "HOA document inspection" will vary significantly by state, since the real estate contract and process varies. All Buyers should start by asking their agents in their locale.

Fence rules vary by municipality. I'd think a top 2 ft of lattice would be spelled out, since they've spelled out the remainder.

Personally, I encourage Buyers to determine the specific # of subdivisions that they're interested in (location, price range, neighborhood "feel", amenities, etc) over time - especially if you've started the process well in advance. You might very easily eliminate a few more neighborhoods based on their HOA rules. In NC, they're pretty much all online (here, they are recorded at the courthouse). Yes, along the way or when it's really time to buy, it might be a different subdivision. But here you'd have time to look up the covenants before you wrote an offer.

In NC, there's no "inspection includes HOA docs" ... it's just a set period of time for the Buyer to do any and all inspections, with the ability to terminate within that period.
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Old 11-19-2018, 10:04 AM
 
5,832 posts, read 3,103,271 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron61 View Post
I live in an HOA community by choice. I researched the rules before I ever got to closing so that I would know exactly what was or was not allowed. You would not believe the number of people who live here who throw a tantrum when they are tagged with a violation and act like they never heard of the rules.

Who in their right mind spends several hundreds of thousands of dollars on a home without checking to see if they are in agreement with the covenants?
Because in many places there is basically no choice. The only choice is between the neighborhood with covenant A or the one with B or so on. And even then there is a huge difference between how reasonable the association can be vs "Little Hitlers" (as someone posted above). And the reasonableness of the board can change over time depending on the members. Believe me, even if the covenants are clear and reasonable on their face, there are still plenty of people who have nothing better to do than twist the words to make life miserable for others. Even when they will lose in the end. Just one example of many I've seen: To repaint our house we went through the process to get the colors approved. About halfway through someone filed a complaint with the HOA. Even though we had the fully approved paperwork before we started, we had to stop work and deal with the complaint. Obviously we won because we had followed the process but it still cost us time and money to stop and restart.
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Old 11-19-2018, 10:58 AM
 
16,634 posts, read 17,798,808 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
I know it's pretty standard that most sale offers are pending inspection. How common is it for an offer to be pending inspection AND review of HOA Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions (CC&Rs)?

We hear so many horror stories involving HOAs. I already have plans to build a solarium on the backyard patio and install an eight foot fence when I buy my new house. These are musts for me. I just need to know that the HOA won't give me trouble later.


Any thoughts? Do buyers ask to review the CC&Rs?
Dont buy in a HOA if that is your plan. Most HOAs do not allow 8 foot fences or solariums.


When we bought a HOA property we had the option of backing out if we didnít like the HOA CCR or the finances.
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Old Today, 06:16 AM
 
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Question. When are HOAs usually formed for brand new developments? From what I'm reading, it would take a certain percentage of residents to file, sign and ratify the new CC&Rs. If I bought and closed on a newly constructed home in the new development and whipped up my fence (according to muni code) before all the CC&R's legal paperwork is completed, would the fence get grandfathered in should the covenants have fencing rules?
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Old Today, 07:03 AM
 
2,751 posts, read 2,824,413 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
Question. When are HOAs usually formed for brand new developments? From what I'm reading, it would take a certain percentage of residents to file, sign and ratify the new CC&Rs. If I bought and closed on a newly constructed home in the new development and whipped up my fence (according to muni code) before all the CC&R's legal paperwork is completed, would the fence get grandfathered in should the covenants have fencing rules?

Usually they are created when the development is planned. In our town (I think consistent with all of Maryland) the HOA documents are approved by the Planning Commission as part of the Site Plan Approval. In one recent development the HOA documents were pretty much boilerplate and would have sailed through except for one clause. the PC insisted that the clause that allowed the HOA to dissolve itself wit a vote of 75% of the homeowners be eliminated. The reason was is that the developer had set it up so that the HOA was responsible for maintenance of the Storm Water Management facilities. The state had made SWM more complex in teh last few years and the developer had used some control methods which would require maintenance in the future (somewhere between 5-15 years) to continue to meet state standards. If the HOA dissolved the town would be responsible and we didn't want to saddle the rest of the town with the expense. So we prevented the home owners from walking away from the responsibility that the builder saddled them with.


The HOA is usually controlled by the developer until completion or until a certain percentage of units are sold. As I mentioned in an earlier post our two largest developments took two different paths. One has a very active HOA. The other was controlled by the Developer until the last unit was completed because the homeowners never organized or accepted control. So the HOA exists and the covenants exist are enforceable but it would be up to individual home owners to enforce through the courts. I'm watching to see how that works out over the years.


SO in your example you would have signed the HOA documents when you bought the house. I don't know of any HOAs that were created 'after the fact'
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Old Today, 07:24 AM
 
1,040 posts, read 300,839 times
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I was going to use Md as an example as well.

It would be a disaster on the part of a buyer to buy something and a builder to sell something with restrictive rules floating around unsigned. I can't imagine the legal ramifications of no one being clear on anything before a purchase. And then discovering, hey, they bought in a hoa.

Md is a good example, one that clearly states what goes on. Go to this long page:

https://govt.westlaw.com/mdc/Browse/...ta=(sc.Default)

Md has an actual Act about its HOAs, as do other states, don't know how many.

Go down to 11.b-105 where the seller (developer) states even when the restrictions,rules, bylaws need to be delivered and how.

Last edited by petsandgardens; Today at 07:59 AM..
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Old Today, 10:20 AM
 
Location: Columbia SC
8,046 posts, read 6,824,430 times
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It is quite common for an associations docs to have tougher rules than local rules. One example is fences. Many municipalities allow 8 ft fences of any type. Most associations limit fences to 4 feet tall and specific types. The association wins as one agreed to them when they bought.

The association docs override municipal rules but not the opposite. Municipality rules say 6 ft fences. Association docs say 8 ft fences. Municipality wins. There is a hierarchy with laws higher than association docs.

Same with on street parking. Docs say no. Municipality says yes. Docs win.
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Old Today, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Florida
20,033 posts, read 8,389,724 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by charlygal View Post
I know it's pretty standard that most sale offers are pending inspection. How common is it for an offer to be pending inspection AND review of HOA Covenants, Conditions & Restrictions (CC&Rs)?

We hear so many horror stories involving HOAs. I already have plans to build a solarium on the backyard patio and install an eight foot fence when I buy my new house. These are musts for me. I just need to know that the HOA won't give me trouble later.

Any thoughts? Do buyers ask to review the CC&Rs?
I think you should check on those building plans before you buy. HOAs usually have a committee that has to approve your plans. We were only allowed to have 6-ft fences. When we added a strip of cement around the pool lanai to prevent erosion, I had to get that approved--really ridiculous, but I guess some people go crazy building. We were not allowed to have visible sheds either.
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Old Today, 10:49 AM
 
Location: North Beach, MD on the Chesapeake
32,251 posts, read 39,528,589 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johngolf View Post
It is quite common for an associations docs to have tougher rules than local rules. One example is fences. Many municipalities allow 8 ft fences of any type. Most associations limit fences to 4 feet tall and specific types. The association wins as one agreed to them when they bought.

The association docs override municipal rules but not the opposite. Municipality rules say 6 ft fences. Association docs say 8 ft fences. Municipality wins. There is a hierarchy with laws higher than association docs.

Same with on street parking. Docs say no. Municipality says yes. Docs win.
For the parking that will depend on whether the street is owned by the HOA or it's a public right of way. There is an HOA here bisected by a public street. Several years ago the HOA tried to enforce no street parking on it (which was stupid because it was used as their overflow parking). The HOA lost that one.
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