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Old 01-08-2019, 09:28 AM
 
4,606 posts, read 11,678,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
I suspect the conflict is rooted in changes to these spaces over the years between original construction
and later adapting by successive owners. eg: "It was like this when I bought" and "the listing said..."
just aren't the same as a permitted and inspected remodel.

And however convenient or comfortable a heated garage (and it's related utility space) might be ...
I am VERY leery that any approved HVAC plan has EITHER included in the conditioned space.
I asked google for some detail on the topic: https://tinyurl.com/yc8ssa83
Here in MN we don't get hung up on 'permitted' or not like it sounds like they do on the east coast. Here it is either finished or not. Appraisers don't check to see if a finished basement went through the permit & inspection process.
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Old 01-08-2019, 01:14 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
7,344 posts, read 5,470,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimtheGuy View Post
Here in MN we don't get hung up on 'permitted' or not like it sounds like they do on the east coast. Here it is either finished or not. Appraisers don't check to see if a finished basement went through the permit & inspection process.
I haven't ran into this specifically when I lived in MN, but in IL the issue with permits actually happened after the close...Someone doing due diligence noticed that the porch had become enclosed and counted as square feet and came after the new owners for permit/inspection. They then had to lawyer up and find the guy.

All the same though, I'm unsure why the OP is so concerned about it. If her neighbor's house is pretty darn identical and sold or appraised for $300K at 2050 square feet, hers is unlikely to take a hit if the next educated Guess (which is what they are, basically, educated calculated guesses) comes in at 1925 sf. Especially if they're both 3/2 with attached garages on 1/4 acre lots...
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:39 PM
 
4,606 posts, read 11,678,032 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JONOV View Post
I haven't ran into this specifically when I lived in MN, but in IL the issue with permits actually happened after the close...Someone doing due diligence noticed that the porch had become enclosed and counted as square feet and came after the new owners for permit/inspection. They then had to lawyer up and find the guy.

All the same though, I'm unsure why the OP is so concerned about it. If her neighbor's house is pretty darn identical and sold or appraised for $300K at 2050 square feet, hers is unlikely to take a hit if the next educated Guess (which is what they are, basically, educated calculated guesses) comes in at 1925 sf. Especially if they're both 3/2 with attached garages on 1/4 acre lots...
SO TRUE on the bolded! People wrongfully get so hung up sq. footage and price/sq. foot. that they lose sight of the big picture.
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Old 01-08-2019, 02:57 PM
 
Location: The Triad (NC)
27,218 posts, read 59,120,586 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimtheGuy View Post
Here in MN we don't get hung up on 'permitted' or not...
The issue (if my concern is even close to accurate) is the sort of hack job implied by NOT inspecting
the work required for one of the hardest spaces there are to properly heat and ventilate.

But if the garage passes muster then the mudroom should as well.
Were they (1970ish?) commonly set up with full HVAC during new construction out there?
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Old Yesterday, 12:33 AM
 
3,120 posts, read 4,264,716 times
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The garage is not in question here on my oroginal post. The garage is not heated or insulated. It has electric.

Just the entry room from the garage is my concern. My home was built in 1986 with all the correct permits and no structural or plumbing or electrical changes have ever been done.

And all my neighbors have much bigger homes, none are the same floorplan as mine. I do have the nicest land though according to the city’s map.
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Old Yesterday, 12:39 AM
 
3,120 posts, read 4,264,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRational View Post
I suspect the conflict is rooted in changes to these spaces over the years between original construction
and later adapting by successive owners. eg: "It was like this when I bought" and "the listing said..."
just aren't the same as a permitted and inspected remodel.

And however convenient or comfortable a heated garage (and it's related utility space) might be ...
I am VERY leery that any approved HVAC plan has EITHER included in the conditioned space.
I asked google for some detail on the topic: https://tinyurl.com/yc8ssa83
Again, this room was never changed. The room is the same as it was from the day 5e house was built. was built in 1986.

This has nothing to do with the garage. Did you see the layout with the red room? It clearly in inside the house proper.
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Old Yesterday, 12:41 AM
 
3,120 posts, read 4,264,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TimtheGuy View Post
SO TRUE on the bolded! People wrongfully get so hung up sq. footage and price/sq. foot. that they lose sight of the big picture.
Well that is promising. I hope it works out that way.

Appraising the house for selling if we can swing it.
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Old Yesterday, 12:50 AM
 
3,120 posts, read 4,264,716 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karen_in_nh_2012 View Post
I am still a bit confused by many things in this thread ...

- Many of you have said that below-grade space counts "differently." That SEEMS to make sense except why would SOME finished, heated, below-grade space "count" and other finished, heated, below-grade space NOT count -- which appears to be the OP's situation? Can someone answer that, please?

- A recent poster said that a laundry room might not be "counted" because it's not "habitable." That makes no sense to me at all because at least where I live (southwestern NH), unless the "laundry room" is simply a washer and dryer hooked up in a basement that is otherwise UN-usable (i.e., it's all unfinished, unheated space), then it would count. It counted at my last house once I added a heating vent to the space (THAT seemed to be what made it "count"), and it counted at my current house from the day it was built (it was a finished, heated laundry closet from the late '70s until a few months ago, when I moved the washer and dryer upstairs to the 5th bedroom, which I call a "project room"). Both spaces -- my last house and my current house -- were finished, heated spaces, so they certainly counted in my square footage. So what exactly does "habitable" mean? For example, I don't LIVE in my bathrooms, but they all "count" as living space; similarly, I never LIVED in my laundry rooms, but they too have "counted" as living space in my last 2 houses (including current house). They are heated, they are finished.

- Someone suggested that maybe a "mud room" wouldn't count? Again, here in New England it certainly would, if it were finished and heated (as most would be). So again -- confusing.

OP, was it definitely the ENTRY ROOM (with the laundry etc.) that wasn't counted -- but the "furnace room" next to it WAS -- in your appraisal? THAT furnace room would seem to be most likely NOT to be counted, but according to the OP it WAS. So, if that is correct (OP? definitely correct?), then what would account for this -- i.e. that the laundry room wouldn't count but the furnace room WOULD? (And OP, did you ever ASK the appraiser about this? What was his/her response?)

And again, I wish people would clarify: if it's "below grade" space that doesn't "count" the same, why in the OP's situation is it just one finished, heated space "below grade" that doesn't count, but all the rest of the finished, heated below-grade space DID count? No one has addressed that. Many have said that "below grade" space will be counted differently, BUT again, in the OP's case it was ONE ROOM in the "below grade" space that was counted differently -- if the OP was correct and it was the entry/laundry room that didn't count (while the furnace room somehow DID!).

Are split-level houses simply particularly difficult in this way?
No the furnace room was not included nor did I think it would be.

When I asked why the room wasn’t included she very sternly said that any room with a washer and dryer is never counted. Just doesn’t make sense to me.

We have a lot of split level homes here, 2 and three levels. My last home was a 3 level split. Most split level homes just add up the total sf like Tim said. They are not really like basements because they have very large picture windows and walk out to grade. I prefer split level homes compared to homes with basements. Just my choice.
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Old Yesterday, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
7,344 posts, read 5,470,541 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayekaye View Post
No the furnace room was not included nor did I think it would be.

When I asked why the room wasn’t included she very sternly said that any room with a washer and dryer is never counted. Just doesn’t make sense to me.

We have a lot of split level homes here, 2 and three levels. My last home was a 3 level split. Most split level homes just add up the total sf like Tim said. They are not really like basements because they have very large picture windows and walk out to grade. I prefer split level homes compared to homes with basements. Just my choice.
That sounds goofy.
  • My house in college had the washer and dryer in the kitchen; So did my second-to-last Apartment
  • My last apartment had the washer and dryer in a closet in the kitchen
  • My parents house has washer and dryer hookups in a relatively big room that also serves as an office; the previous owner tried to call it a bedroom but that was a nonstarter since there were no bathrooms on that floor, and the laundry hookups
  • And, as you said, Split level homes are another great example

Now, here in the south many homes have laundry in areas that you must go outside to access. Many of the 1940-1970 Ranch style homes, mine included, have it under the carport but not attached to the house. Weird to me, but whatever. That I certainly wouldn't include in the square footage.
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Old Yesterday, 10:20 AM
 
4,606 posts, read 11,678,032 times
Reputation: 3146
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kayekaye View Post
No the furnace room was not included nor did I think it would be.

When I asked why the room wasn’t included she very sternly said that any room with a washer and dryer is never counted. Just doesn’t make sense to me.

We have a lot of split level homes here, 2 and three levels. My last home was a 3 level split. Most split level homes just add up the total sf like Tim said. They are not really like basements because they have very large picture windows and walk out to grade. I prefer split level homes compared to homes with basements. Just my choice.
Just forget about that appraisal completely. Find a different agent to list your home. No appraisal needed. They will include that room in the total of finished sq feet. Good luck on the sale!
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