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Old 01-31-2019, 03:07 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
32,285 posts, read 56,466,756 times
Reputation: 31020

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Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
...
Commissions can't be discussed outside of individual negotiations.
??
What do you mean by this?
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Old 01-31-2019, 03:45 PM
 
Location: planet earth
3,866 posts, read 1,387,438 times
Reputation: 8595
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
??
What do you mean by this?
Antitrust:

https://www.nar.realtor/rmoquiz2.nsf...2?OpenDocument

https://www.inman.com/2011/11/03/kno...n-discussions/
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Old 01-31-2019, 04:10 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
32,285 posts, read 56,466,756 times
Reputation: 31020



I think you are over-reading the links.
Well... I don't pay Inman, so I only got to read what I saw before the paywall popup.


The NAR page indicates that price-fixing conversations are probably in violation of antitrust rules.
Absolutely agreed.

But, all commission conversations are not price-fixing.
Yes, there are "code words" that old dog or uneducated or crooked agents use that verge on implication of price fixing.
Some still say, "standard commission." Some still say, "discount agent" or "discount firm" or "discount broker."
Those terms imply that there is a standard commission from which to discount.
And, they are derogatory when used by price-fixers.

Yes, as Inman mentions, some managers are very worried about ignorant agents making them liable for such term usage, and hasten to tell associates not to get involved in ANY discussion of brokerage fees with other agent.
That is the safest advice, as they know legitimate conversations often veer into ill-advised conversations.


But, I can talk about commission all I want to, as long as I don't engage in derogatory commentary regarding other models, their fee structures, or imply that other agents or brokers should charge a specific amount.
It is clearly legitimate to advertise a commission rate to the general public, which is not a violation, and is not an "individual negotiation."

I tell people all the time that my listing "rack rate" is 4.8%, with a 50/50 split.
I can say that legally, all day, every day.
What I never say, is that anyone else should charge any number at all.
So, I may say, "I don't care if another agent or firm works for free or charges 100%. I just hope they do legitimate business regardless of the fee."
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:21 PM
 
2,223 posts, read 523,428 times
Reputation: 2472
I know that my mother may have appreciated the extra expertise using a real estate agent, or at least consulting one, as opposed to utilizing solely an estate attorney when exercising her heir-option to buy out the reverse mortgage on her father's home from the estate.

Reverse Mortgage ADVANCED INFORMATION THREAD Financial Freedom / Celink

Thread started by yours, truly.
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Old 01-31-2019, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Ocala, FL
3,156 posts, read 5,892,382 times
Reputation: 2665
Not sure if this has been brought up earlier, but Realty is a profession that no matter how much effort is placed in either helping a client buy or sell a property, if the deal falls through they face the reality that they may not be paid anything for their effort. Happens all the time.
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Old 01-31-2019, 06:17 PM
 
Location: planet earth
3,866 posts, read 1,387,438 times
Reputation: 8595
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
I think you are over-reading the links.
Well... I don't pay Inman, so I only got to read what I saw before the paywall popup.


The NAR page indicates that price-fixing conversations are probably in violation of antitrust rules.
Absolutely agreed.

But, all commission conversations are not price-fixing.
Yes, there are "code words" that old dog or uneducated or crooked agents use that verge on implication of price fixing.
Some still say, "standard commission." Some still say, "discount agent" or "discount firm" or "discount broker."
Those terms imply that there is a standard commission from which to discount.
And, they are derogatory when used by price-fixers.

Yes, as Inman mentions, some managers are very worried about ignorant agents making them liable for such term usage, and hasten to tell associates not to get involved in ANY discussion of brokerage fees with other agent.
That is the safest advice, as they know legitimate conversations often veer into ill-advised conversations.


But, I can talk about commission all I want to, as long as I don't engage in derogatory commentary regarding other models, their fee structures, or imply that other agents or brokers should charge a specific amount.
It is clearly legitimate to advertise a commission rate to the general public, which is not a violation, and is not an "individual negotiation."

I tell people all the time that my listing "rack rate" is 4.8%, with a 50/50 split.
I can say that legally, all day, every day.
What I never say, is that anyone else should charge any number at all.
So, I may say, "I don't care if another agent or firm works for free or charges 100%. I just hope they do legitimate business regardless of the fee."
You can read the Inman article - I did and I didn't have to pay. You just click something . . .

Anyway, that article - and others on the web - talk about "discussing commissions online" and the illegality of that . . . I think there are very technical, specific arguments . . . I don't see any reason to discuss commission other than to know what YOU will work for and if you work for a broker, what they might recommend (although I have never had that conversation with any broker) . . .

The key is that "commissions are negotiable."
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Old 01-31-2019, 06:48 PM
 
Location: Cary, NC
32,285 posts, read 56,466,756 times
Reputation: 31020
Quote:
Originally Posted by nobodysbusiness View Post
You can read the Inman article - I did and I didn't have to pay. You just click something . . .

Anyway, that article - and others on the web - talk about "discussing commissions online" and the illegality of that . . . I think there are very technical, specific arguments . . . I don't see any reason to discuss commission other than to know what YOU will work for and if you work for a broker, what they might recommend (although I have never had that conversation with any broker) . . .

The key is that "commissions are negotiable."
I was able to read In man on my phone without a paywall for some reason.

Teresa Boardman is a good writer.
As I thought, your posted position is an exaggeration.
The actual key is to avoid discussion with other brokers as to what fees should be.

I agree with her point on attempted price-fixing:
"As a licensed real estate broker, I should not write an article here or anywhere suggesting that all agents should charge "X" amount because we are worth it, or for any other reason.

I can advertise my own rates, but I should not engage in a conversation about the commission rate real estate professionals should charge with another licensee outside of my brokerage."

I never do that.
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Old 01-31-2019, 07:31 PM
 
Location: planet earth
3,866 posts, read 1,387,438 times
Reputation: 8595
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
I was able to read In man on my phone without a paywall for some reason.

Teresa Boardman is a good writer.
As I thought, your posted position is an exaggeration.
The actual key is to avoid discussion with other brokers as to what fees should be.

I agree with her point on attempted price-fixing:
"As a licensed real estate broker, I should not write an article here or anywhere suggesting that all agents should charge "X" amount because we are worth it, or for any other reason.

I can advertise my own rates, but I should not engage in a conversation about the commission rate real estate professionals should charge with another licensee outside of my brokerage."

I never do that.
Okay, cool. I am not sure why you felt the need to put me down, but whatever.
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Old 01-31-2019, 08:18 PM
 
128 posts, read 51,619 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by alpha_1976 View Post
Realtors are overpaid! I don't know why people fall for this though. I sold our primary house of 6 years last year - House was in perfect condition. I offered 4% total (1.5% = 2.5%). My agent freaked out when I told him I am sticking with 4%. he realized quickly someone else was going to grab it so called me later that day apologized and agreed. Was under contract within 3 days. Not going to pay 6% ever. Even 4% is way too much for what they do.
I totally agree! In this day and age with the internet and websites such as Zillow, Redfin, and Trulia, just to name a few, most people do their own research when searching properties. I found my current property online, went to an open house and called my agent and asked him to write an offer for the amount I had in mind. The seller accepted my offer, even though my agent thought it was too low.

I hope that in the near future a company such as Airbnb or Zillow gets into the house selling business so that just like we're able now to book rooms from Airbnb from the owner, a buyer will be able to purchase a house directly from the seller. I am surprised that nothing like this exists yet. But I guess I shouldn't be surprised given the real estate powerful lobby.

Years ago I saw an episode on 60 Minutes about how Redfin, which charges 4%, and was trying to break into various markets but was getting push back from full price realtors. (Below is a link of the transcript but the video doesn't seem to work). Since then, Redfin has really expanded all over the country.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/chippin...nt-11-05-2007/

Redfin has changed the market somewhat, I still think buyers and sellers should be able to buy/sell directly, without the middle person.

OP, I agree with you that the feedback you received here was very harsh! I was having a similar conversation with my neighbor when he was selling his house. He actually purchased his house from the seller yrs. ago over a handshake. He sold his house over a yr. ago to someone who was renting in our neighborhood and he did not use a real estate agent. I agree with you that the realtor fees are high. I think the 6% fees were reasonable back in the day, where homes cost $50k-$100k. But where I live, a single family home costs around $700k, and the surrounding areas are $1m +. Again, given the technology and all the online information there's no need for the fees to be so high.

Please don't misunderstand, I've meet great real estate agents over the yrs., and on certain deals they do work hard. But there are many simple sales which don't require a lot of work, if we only had an option to purchase a house directly online.
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Old 01-31-2019, 08:21 PM
 
Location: Pixburgh
1,150 posts, read 1,101,625 times
Reputation: 1250
I love FSBO to tell you the truth, most of them will pay a buyer commission so on that end it makes no difference to me.

Unfortunately most of my buyers won't go see a FSBO. Thats just a fact, for some reason a lot of people just have no interest in trying to buy a FSBO. I don't know why, you either get a discount price or know the guy isn't one you want to deal with before even showing it.
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