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Old 02-11-2019, 05:11 PM
 
Location: Florida
20,839 posts, read 8,795,464 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by athena222 View Post
Does this ever really happen? Do buying and selling agents ever work together behind the scenes to dupe a buyer so that they can get an increased profit to share, or is this just paranoia? Anyone ever experienced this, or heard of it?

thanks
I don't know that they are trying to 'dupe' a buyer, but the realtors definitely want a deal, and they definitely want their commissions.

Watch Million Dollar Listings. Of course the agents talk to each other--but mostly how to get the deal done--so then they can get their money (not all agents, but many).

Worked in RE law for a while--and those particular RE agents in that town during the boom (Mercedes-driving bleached-blonde types), were obnoxious. Wanted us to to do the work that was their job, and they only ever called to ask when they could pick up their checks. I know a few realtors who are really good people and care more about the clients than the money. But I don't believe the majority are like that.
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Old 02-11-2019, 06:06 PM
 
Location: BNA
462 posts, read 245,598 times
Reputation: 1134
Quote:
Originally Posted by otterhere View Post
In the age of Zillow, why do you even need a "buying agent"? You can find your own houses online and, especially if it's not your first rodeo, negotiate the deal yourself.
Why use an attorney for that matter, or forms that realtor-related organizations have developed?

Why not just meet in a bar and write everything up on a bevnap? What could go wrong?
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Old Yesterday, 12:54 AM
 
11 posts, read 1,261 times
Reputation: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by athena222 View Post
Does this ever really happen? Do buying and selling agents ever work together behind the scenes to dupe a buyer so that they can get an increased profit to share, or is this just paranoia? Anyone ever experienced this, or heard of it?

thanks


Under South Carolina Real Estate License Law, the listing agent works for the seller and any cooperating agents also work for the seller. If you hire a buyers agent they work for you but you pay them, unless otherwise covered under the sales contract. A real estate agent is required to disclose who he is working for to a prospective buyer so unless you have hired the agent assume they work for the seller.
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Old Yesterday, 07:43 AM
 
661 posts, read 1,637,695 times
Reputation: 984
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
In a purchase transaction, it turned out our agent and the seller's agent were in the same office. The seller's agent was the "Alpha Dog." Our agent rolled over and played dead all the time. I don't think it was conspiring to maximize sales price; I think our agent was afraid of getting on the wrong side of the seller's agent. Our transaction was just a transaction to her - but she has to work with the Alpha Dog seller's agent for years to come.

During negotiation, we'd tell our agent "ask for XYZ" and our agent would respond "Alpha Dog won't go for that." We'd say "Alpha Dog is just the seller's agent; we want the question to go to the seller." "Alpha Dog won't go for that," she would repeat.

Sigh.

Holy crap did you have the last jerk we used to sell our house?

Seller's realtor demanded a laundry list of MUST HAVES, plus closing costs, plus a discount, because her first-time buyers were young, broke, had a baby (what is with that baby song bs? IDGAF about your kids).

We said no in no uncertain terms in an email to our realtor and specifically told our realtor if they cannot afford all of the accoutrements of home ownership, as we have been saying all along - go find another house. The quote was, "We will NOT be paying for any of these items (insert list). We will only consider (2 items). Otherwise terminate the contract"

Our realtor forwarded our email to her Alpha Dog (buyer's realtor) and deleted 'NOT' and 'go find another house, we are terminating this contract' - and suddenly we had a deal. Alpha actually forwarded the email string to me to confirm when all of those lovely gifts would be taking place and I wanted to choke my realtor.

Last edited by 3DogNight; Yesterday at 07:50 AM.. Reason: . clarity
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Old Yesterday, 07:46 AM
 
Location: Beautiful Rhode Island
6,463 posts, read 10,734,544 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by athena222 View Post
Does this ever really happen? Do buying and selling agents ever work together behind the scenes to dupe a buyer so that they can get an increased profit to share, or is this just paranoia? Anyone ever experienced this, or heard of it?

thanks

You're asking realtors for an honest answer?????

It happens all the time behind the scenes- don't be naive. They don't dupe anyone necessarily, they just conspire to sell the property via deal making, and not necessarily in the buyer's interest. After all, no one gets a commission unless the property sells and the higher the price, the higher the commissions.
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Old Yesterday, 08:00 AM
 
Location: Cary, NC
32,343 posts, read 56,556,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hollytree View Post
You're asking realtors for an honest answer?????

It happens all the time behind the scenes- don't be naive. They don't dupe anyone necessarily, they just conspire to sell the property via deal making, and not necessarily in the buyer's interest. After all, no one gets a commission unless the property sells and the higher the price, the higher the commissions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
Every time I see one of these goofy threads, I wonder if many of the participants actually have ever bought or sold a property.
Here's a good defense.
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Old Yesterday, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Blue Ridge Mntns., NC
10,504 posts, read 14,530,390 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Ferris View Post
The classic scam is the "double-escrow". Say a seller asks $400K for his house but will take $300K. Say a buyer offers $300K but will go to $400K. Instead of putting the transaction through at $350K, the agents put up a dummy to buy the house for $300K and sell it for $400K. That gives them $100K profit, less expenses.

Of course, these figures are rather extreme, but getting $10K on each deal would be good enough. You could look at it as the agents being house flippers with the advantage of knowing the prices in advance.
I don't know of this actually being done. But then, I'm not in the business.


This says it all. Ridiculous conjecture.
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Old Yesterday, 09:18 AM
 
320 posts, read 161,179 times
Reputation: 523
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuilterChick View Post
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This says it all. Ridiculous conjecture.

If you have to have the source, it is a novel by Erle Stanley Gardner, who was a lawyer in Los Angeles and knew what was going on. His books with the character Donald Lam make a feature of uncovering the contemporary scams, 1940's to 1960's. Ross McDonald's books from the same era also mention it.
I wasn't dealing in houses back then, having been born in 1953.
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Old Yesterday, 09:45 AM
 
Location: Raleigh
7,595 posts, read 5,605,804 times
Reputation: 10459
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeJaquish View Post
Every time I see one of these goofy threads, I wonder if many of the participants actually have ever bought or sold a property.
Realtors have a large amount of trust placed in them and a low barrier to entry to gain the Certifications and whatnot needed to enter the trade. This is further exacerbated by people (I see this with some of my friends) that use their classmate's older sister or something for their realtor, when in fact they should be looking for referrals and whatnot.

That combined with varying degrees of analysis, caution, etc, can make one ask these questions. If you've been had before elsewhere, then you may be more suspicious in other areas.

And some people just can't accept anything for what it is. That a Hardware store sells shovels made of steel isn't because its the right material for a shovel. They'll look to a conspiracy where the Lowe's family owns interests in iron mines that are used for their shovels when they should be made of Hemp.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 3DogNight View Post
Holy crap did you have the last jerk we used to sell our house?

Seller's realtor demanded a laundry list of MUST HAVES, plus closing costs, plus a discount, because her first-time buyers were young, broke, had a baby (what is with that baby song bs? IDGAF about your kids).

We said no in no uncertain terms in an email to our realtor and specifically told our realtor if they cannot afford all of the accoutrements of home ownership, as we have been saying all along - go find another house. The quote was, "We will NOT be paying for any of these items (insert list). We will only consider (2 items). Otherwise terminate the contract"

Our realtor forwarded our email to her Alpha Dog (buyer's realtor) and deleted 'NOT' and 'go find another house, we are terminating this contract' - and suddenly we had a deal. Alpha actually forwarded the email string to me to confirm when all of those lovely gifts would be taking place and I wanted to choke my realtor.
Is that not a crime? Or at least something you could have their license for? I'd at least have had a lawyer tie up his life for a few months.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ed Ferris View Post
The classic scam is the "double-escrow". Say a seller asks $400K for his house but will take $300K. Say a buyer offers $300K but will go to $400K. Instead of putting the transaction through at $350K, the agents put up a dummy to buy the house for $300K and sell it for $400K. That gives them $100K profit, less expenses.

Of course, these figures are rather extreme, but getting $10K on each deal would be good enough. You could look at it as the agents being house flippers with the advantage of knowing the prices in advance.
I don't know of this actually being done. But then, I'm not in the business.
Your confusing a double escrow scam a little bit. Its not the original seller, its the banks and the bag men. It could go as you describe with an innocent, uninvolved seller being duped, but usually its a patsy for the con artist Man Jailed for Orchestrating a Double Escrow Mortgage Scam | Mortgage Fraud BlogMan Jailed for Orchestrating a Double Escrow Mortgage Scam - Mortgage Fraud Blog

Basically as Bo says below:

Quote:
Originally Posted by BoBromhal View Post
now, there were scams that defrauded large mortgage servicers back in the 2004-2008 era. It was a conspiracy of attorneys, loan origiantors, and agents. "Fake" buyers/borrowers got loans in excess of the real transaction value. Some really bad example, a sap buyer was paid $10's of thousands of dollars to sign and thought they had no obligation, the other players made 100K, and the servicing lender was left holding the bag. It was still less than 1% of transactions, and several people went to jail.
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Old Yesterday, 10:19 AM
 
9,718 posts, read 11,626,089 times
Reputation: 13092
Quote:
Originally Posted by athena222 View Post
Does this ever really happen? Do buying and selling agents ever work together behind the scenes to dupe a buyer so that they can get an increased profit to share, or is this just paranoia? Anyone ever experienced this, or heard of it?

thanks

Increase profit.........no

Faster sale, absolutely but unfortunately every one makes less on that type of deal but the seller scores!
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