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Old 09-09-2019, 06:41 PM
 
536 posts, read 228,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spokaneinvestor View Post
I am glad your approach works for you. Most folks that buy or sell a house as personal property every few years use that approach. Those of us that buy and sell multiple investment properties every year negotiate everything. Comps are useful and not a “tool to fool” when presented to an experienced RE investor. Another data point that builds the mosaic of price point.
Thank you, it does work very well and also hope yours works for you.

Please don't misinterpret my reference to comps. Our last buyer tried to present comps. with No upgrades, in a notably worse area of town. Always do a drive by the comps that are presented.

I buy and sell every 2-4 yrs to pocket the total tax free. Not a big investor, but it has worked for yrs.

From your screen name I guess you know in real estate, everything is negotiable and no one way works on every property.

As they say, 'there's more than one way to skin a cat.' Even offering full price on a fixer sometimes has great benefits.

But the buyer pays for everything.
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Old 09-09-2019, 06:49 PM
 
119 posts, read 22,783 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by movedintime View Post

I buy and sell every 2-4 yrs to pocket the total tax free. Not a big investor, but it has worked for yrs.

.
That sounds like a massive pain in the rear to access your gain. You might be better off negotiating a HELOC so you have access to the capital without losing costs of sale every two to four years not to mention the disruption that comes with moving. Or renting, then you could plow it all into the market and take the gain whenever you wanted with minimal transaction costs. Either way, you are paying a lot of sales costs to access your gains.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:03 PM
 
536 posts, read 228,967 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spokaneinvestor View Post
That sounds like a massive pain in the rear to avoid LT cap gains. You might be better off negotiating a HELOC so you have access to the capital without losing costs of sale every two to four years not to mention the disruption that comes with moving. Or renting, then you could plow it all into the market and take the gain whenever you wanted with minimal transaction costs. Either way, you are paying a lot of sales costs to save a bit on taxes if that is your sole goal.

Not a pain at all. Tax savings is not the only goal, it is an additional benefit. We like to travel the country. It allows us the cash flow and freedom. Again, I lose NOTHING on a sale. The buyer pays or goes shopping for a different house. It's really that simple.

I set the price I am willing to pay for a property I am interested in. If the seller says no or counters to high, I go shopping for a different property.

I set the price I am willing to accept for a property I am selling, if the buyer doesn't like it, they have to go shopping elsewhere.

It really isn't that complicated. It's just a property. I believe Agents that assist in accomplishing my goals earn every penny they collect for their efforts and I happily Thank them.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:19 PM
 
119 posts, read 22,783 times
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Default ,

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Originally Posted by movedintime View Post
Not a pain at all. Tax savings is not the only goal, it is an additional benefit. We like to travel the country. It allows us the cash flow and freedom. Again, I lose NOTHING on a sale. The buyer pays or goes shopping for a different house. It's really that simple.

I set the price I am willing to pay for a property I am interested in. If the seller says no or counters to high, I go shopping for a different property.

I set the price I am willing to accept for a property I am selling, if the buyer doesn't like it, they have to go shopping elsewhere.

It really isn't that complicated. It's just a property. I believe Agents that assist in accomplishing my goals earn every penny they collect for their efforts and I happily Thank them.
That model may work in an ever climbing market. If you get caught with no chair when the music stops, it might not work so well. You seem to have it all figured out .. kind of like the sellers I did short sales with after the last RE crash. They had it all figured out too and I think they felt they never lost anything on a sale because the buyer paid for everything until one day, when the music stopped, and they got wiped out. Unless you are paying all cash each time, you risk being underwater someday. But you have it all figured out - the buyer pays for everything and you have no risk. You lose NOTHING on a sale.

I love seeing the country too but I won’t be selling my primary or lake home to go somewhere else. The cash flow from income properties funds, among other things, a 45’ motor home to travel the country in when I want and where I want. No moving, no selling and buying, no packing, no agents, no showings, nothing. Before you say it, yes there is depreciation on the coach but I suspect the depreciation is less than the haircut taken by selling and buying every two to four years. And the risk of getting caught in a heavy market downdraft is non-existent.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:24 PM
 
1,657 posts, read 2,396,396 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spokaneinvestor View Post
I would posit that you are no financial analysis (to quote you above) or analyst (which is probably what you meant) or anything related to finance or you would understand a sales transaction balance sheet. The commission is mostly certainly shown as a seller paid debit on a sales transaction balance sheet or HUD-1.

You are simply angry because you think the MLS is has an anti-competitive practice (to use your words) when it comes to setting commission rates. The MLS does not set commissions rates, that is illegal in all fifty states, individual brokers and agents set their commission where ever they want them to be based on their individual business model. See the flat rate commission example above - if the MLS controlled commission rates, the flat fee model would not exist. If the MLS went away, you would have total market disarray and prices would likely move all over the place.

If I am wrong about you having a degree in finance, please ask the community college you attended for your money back. The only way your limited understanding of finance could work is if you work for the government.
And its obvious you're just another fast talking investor who probably buys houses where they are really cheap and thinks he's a financial genius. You're not fooling anyone.

A HUD-1 is a settlement statement. It is not a balance sheet. Your statements show how little you actually know about accounting and finance.

Money comes out of the buyers pocket and goes straight into agent's pockets. Even most agents admit buyers pay the commission.

and please refer back to the first post and read the article. It is obvious you didn't.

"...believes the problem lies in the anti-competitive practices of the Multiple Listing Service (mls), through which nearly every broker in America lists and searches for homes, and the National Association of Realtors (nar), a trade association with 1.3m broker members in America, which regulates it."
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:39 PM
 
536 posts, read 228,967 times
Reputation: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spokaneinvestor View Post
That model may work in an ever climbing market. If you get caught with no chair when the music stops, it might not work so well. You seem to have it all figured out .. kind of like the sellers I did short sales with after the last RE crash. They had it all figured out too and I think they felt they never lost anything on a sale because the buyer paid for everything until one day, when the music stopped, and they got wiped out. Unless you are paying all cash each time, you risk being underwater someday. But you have it all figured out - the buyer pays for everything and you have no risk. You lose NOTHING on a sale.

I love seeing the country too but I won’t be selling my primary or lake home to go somewhere else. The cash flow from income properties funds, among other things, a 45’ motor home to travel the country in when I want and where I want. No moving, no selling and buying, no packing, no agents, no showings, nothing. Before you say it, yes there is depreciation on the coach but I suspect the depreciation is less than the haircut taken by selling and buying every two to four years. And the risk of getting caught in a heavy market downdraft is non-existent.
Well shoot, there's no reason to get nasty. We're very pleased with how it has worked out for the 35 yrs. of using our methods well before anyone ever heard of the words 'house flipper'. If we like the location, we stick around a little longer, if not we sell and off to another fun location we have in mind.

If you like all your toys and staying put, that's great for you. We just have a different theory than the toy collection people.

We go with 'he who laughs the most, wins !
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:51 PM
 
119 posts, read 22,783 times
Reputation: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pyramidsurf View Post
And its obvious you're just another fast talking investor who probably buys houses where they are really cheap and thinks he's a financial genius. You're not fooling anyone.

A HUD-1 is a settlement statement. It is not a balance sheet. Your statements show how little you actually know about accounting and finance.

Money comes out of the buyers pocket and goes straight into agent's pockets. Even most agents admit buyers pay the commission.

and please refer back to the first post and read the article. It is obvious you didn't.

"...believes the problem lies in the anti-competitive practices of the Multiple Listing Service (mls), through which nearly every broker in America lists and searches for homes, and the National Association of Realtors (nar), a trade association with 1.3m broker members in America, which regulates it."
Nope, you surmise wrong. I buy at market price - wherever that market price is - and then put tenants in them. I sell a few and buy a few via 1031 exchanges to defer gains. As long as I get my 6 cap net of expenses and my tax depreciation, I am happy. Never thought I was a financial genius except for the paying with cash and never financing part. Took some genius to amass the capital to get started but that was software development genius not financial.

A HUD-1 is a form of a balance sheet. Maybe not the balance sheets you are used to using your crayons to complete but a balance sheet none the less. I read the same article you did but I was able to comprehend the argument which you obviously haven’t. I don’t think you will find a listing agent that would state that the buyer pays their commission but I would love it if you could. The MLS *may* have some anti-competitive practices but setting broker commissions isn’t one of them.

What you are failing to understand is that market value is just that market value. Any commission comes out of market value so the seller is paying the commission by taking a loss on market value. If one accepts your argument that the buyer pays the commission, then the real estate market should be such that the buyer makes an offer and also decides how much commission they want to pay to close the deal. And, furthering that argument, if a seller doesn’t use an agent, then the savings on commission should go to the buyer since they are paying the commission. Nope, not the way it works. The only way your argument holds any water is if you say well the market is inflated by x% to account for costs of sale - maybe then.
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Old 09-09-2019, 07:52 PM
 
119 posts, read 22,783 times
Reputation: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by movedintime View Post
Well shoot, there's no reason to get nasty. We're very pleased with how it has worked out for the 35 yrs. of using our methods well before anyone ever heard of the words 'house flipper'. If we like the location, we stick around a little longer, if not we sell and off to another fun location we have in mind.

If you like all your toys and staying put, that's great for you. We just have a different theory than the toy collection people.

We go with 'he who laughs the most, wins !
No not getting nasty, just calling BS on your “model”
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:18 PM
 
536 posts, read 228,967 times
Reputation: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spokaneinvestor View Post
No not getting nasty, just calling BS on your “model”
not getting nasty, but calling BS. Oxymoron anybody ?

bragging about your stuff only impresses those interested....if that. Hope it keeps you happy.

3 homes in CDA. bet you know where that is---liked it there and stuck around awhile. That winter is just no place to grow older.

went to the no ice zone. did a 40 acre development. Had a blast.

completed a 3-story, 7 br/5ba in vietnam. Unbelievable memories.

Hawaii property worked out exceptionally well.

now off to a new lake/mountain area we always wanted to go.

but who cares..... back to the point. I'm Thankful to all the real estate professionals who have helped us.
No way do I want the responsibilities and headaches of dealing with buyers & sellers & lenders & title & & &

To all you Professional Agents - Thank You
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Old 09-09-2019, 08:22 PM
 
119 posts, read 22,783 times
Reputation: 194
Quote:
Originally Posted by movedintime View Post
not getting nasty, but calling BS. Oxymoron anybody ?

bragging about your stuff only impresses those interested....if that. Hope it keeps you happy.

3 homes in CDA. bet you know where that is---liked it there and stuck around awhile. That winter is just no place to grow older.

went to the no ice zone. did a 40 acre development. Had a blast.

completed a 3-story, 7 br/5ba in vietnam. Unbelievable memories.

Hawaii property worked out exceptionally well.

now off to a new lake/mountain area we always wanted to go.

but who cares..... back to the point. I'm Thankful to all the real estate professionals who have helped us.
No way do I want the responsibilities and headaches of dealing with buyers & sellers & lenders & title & & &

To all you Professional Agents - Thank You
I still call BS on your model. I doubt the veracity of your claimed real estate projects but anyone can claim anything here. I see all hat no cattle real estate people every day. As you said, bragging about your stuff ...
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