U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old Yesterday, 11:07 AM
 
Location: BNA
509 posts, read 295,881 times
Reputation: 1343

Advertisements

Why people allow this kind of stuff to happen is beyond me. It’s very likely she’s never going to speak with any of you again, and it’s also very likely that if she railroads you all into selling to her daughter that the house will be resold shortly thereafter for a significantly higher price.

I would say that the narrative of this problem sounds fake but of course people do this all the time—so I’ll change my words and say that it sounds pathetic and boring. Either do something or don’t. Being scared that siblings will have a fit that you’re seeking out info on the internet borders on the ridiculous, but then again your family has allowed one person to jerk you all around for a decade and basically steal from you.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old Yesterday, 11:37 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
17,620 posts, read 17,892,116 times
Reputation: 43245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
Settle this soon or if some of the siblings die and they pass it to their kids you'll never get it settled.

Eight becomes 20 to deal with.
That happened to a friend of ours. When their parents died they left the family farm to their six children. The children got along well and never had any major problems. Then two siblings died and their five children got involved! What a mess. They didn't get it straightened out before another sibling passed away and now there are three children and nine grandchildren in the fray. The youngest child is 72 years old so they better get it straightened out fast or it will be even a bigger mess. (Frankly, I doubt if anyone will be speaking to anyone else when it is finally over).
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 11:38 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
17,620 posts, read 17,892,116 times
Reputation: 43245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Xelfer View Post
Why people allow this kind of stuff to happen is beyond me. Itís very likely sheís never going to speak with any of you again, and itís also very likely that if she railroads you all into selling to her daughter that the house will be resold shortly thereafter for a significantly higher price.

I would say that the narrative of this problem sounds fake but of course people do this all the timeóso Iíll change my words and say that it sounds pathetic and boring. Either do something or donít. Being scared that siblings will have a fit that youíre seeking out info on the internet borders on the ridiculous, but then again your family has allowed one person to jerk you all around for a decade and basically steal from you.
Great points.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 12:46 PM
 
818 posts, read 263,351 times
Reputation: 2209
The holdout sister has already ruined her relationships by being selfish. No way would I let someone get away with this. Walking away from a inheritance or taking a reduced amount is not going to salvage the relationships at this point. She has shown her true colors.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:55 PM
 
Location: Raleigh
8,587 posts, read 6,431,327 times
Reputation: 11968
Quote:
Originally Posted by 399083453 View Post
My dying wish is to have all my kids fight over my house and never talk to each other again. LOL. That is what people are saying when they leave the house to the kids without legal instructions.
If they're apt to fight they'll fight no matter how well the estate is planned. If not, they'll muddle through intestate succession laws without much discord. I know one family member that passed and the only thing the heirs fought over was the set of kitchen knives. Not the house, other real estate, assets, car, etc...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmichigan View Post
Are there other assets from the estate which weren't distributed? If not, since the house was apparently deeded to you and your siblings prior to your parents' death, there isn't a need for an estate attorney or for removing your sister as the executor. You simply need a good real estate attorney to guide you through the process of getting the house sold. One owner can not prohibit a sale...but one can force a sale. Good luck.
Can one have the holdover sibling evicted before sale? Forcing the sale is one thing. Forcing someone on the deed out before the sale is another. Selling a house with someone hellbent on it still residing it is hard.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 01:58 PM
 
599 posts, read 608,434 times
Reputation: 1110
With 8 family members, it is pretty easy for things to revert straight back to sandpit politics. Very easy for emotions to run rampant and prevent the participants from making rational, logical decisions. Is there someone with a cool head, perhaps a family friend who knew both your parents and their children, who can act as a mediator?

Has anyone in your family, aside from your sister, actually sat down and run the numbers on the two current possibilities? You may find that you don't financially come out very much ahead at all forcing a sale to someone else, and you will have completely destroyed any chance to repair relationships.

You need to find out exactly how the ownership of the house is structured. At the least, go see an estate lawyer with as many documents as you can find so you have a better understanding of your position. Most will do the initial consultation for free and you can then make a more informed decision as to how to proceed.

I'm wondering whether the house was placed in a living trust before your parents death, with your sister appointed as trustee? That would actually explain a whole lot in terms of how this has unfolded. With a living trust, there is no need to go through probate, which would perhaps explain the lack of a will and your sister's apparent position of power. My hunch is she still makes decisions about the property as trustee with you all as beneficiaries, but the final disposition and transfer of title still has to be finalized.

If it is in a trust, as trustee, she wouldn't have a completely unfettered right to do as she pleases, but she would actually have the right to sell it over sibling objections as long as it did not breach her fiduciary responsibilities to the beneficiaries (i.e. she has to treat all beneficiaries equally, she can't sell it for substantially below market value, can't use trust assets for her own benefit, etc). As a trust beneficiary, you would be entitled to receive a copy of the trust document and the trustee should prepare a regular general accounting of trust assets and expenditures, but they don't have to consult everybody on every decision.

Once the trustor has died, the trustee is under an obligation to wrap up the transfer of assets in a timely manner. 10 years is starting to push it, but it may not necessarily be unreasonable, depending on all the circumstances. The trustee is also entitled to be paid by the estate for her services (which could cancel out any debt obligation from rent, if there even is such an obligation). If you believe she is not adequately performing her duties, you can apply to the courts to either have her perform her duties properly or have her removed as a trustee.

A couple of other things to consider, in no particular order, regardless of how it's owned:

- a private sale to your sister/niece will eliminate real estate agent fees (which could be $50,000-70,000 if the house truly is worth $1.2m)

- in many states, a private sale to a family member from a trust may also eliminate/reduce county and city property transfer taxes (that could be another $10,000 or so)

- a private sale to her/niece means you don't have to pay to get the property ready for market and you don't have to make any disclosures.
If she has been living in it for 10 years, how much work would be required to get it ready to put on the market (unless you are willing to sell as-is and take the reduced price)? Would it sell for much more than lot value if you don't do anything? The cost of any work required would have to be paid by all co-owners, further reducing each individual's share, whereas if you sell to her, you can agree to sell it as is.

- as MikeJaquish mentioned, there might be room for your sister/niece to raise their bid, say to $700,000 or 750,000

- if you go the forced sale route, lawyers fees may well mean that you all individually end up with pretty close to what you would have received if you'd just sold to her in the first place, or even less.

One final thing - none of us knows enough about the situation to know who is "in the right" here, but from what you have written, it seems that she was the only sibling out of 8 to look after your parents in a live-in situation until their death. That is huge. And she is the only one who did anything about managing the property since their death, paying the property taxes and carrying out maintenance. It sounds like she went above and beyond. If that were one of my siblings, as a matter of personal integrity I would want to recognize that. Favorable terms in a real estate transaction might be one way of doing that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 02:00 PM
 
Location: Wisconsin
17,620 posts, read 17,892,116 times
Reputation: 43245
Quote:
Originally Posted by Teacher Terry View Post
The holdout sister has already ruined her relationships by being selfish. No way would I let someone get away with this. Walking away from a inheritance or taking a reduced amount is not going to salvage the relationships at this point. She has shown her true colors.
I agree.

Free rent for ten years?!? I know people in California who pay $3,000 a month for a fairly small apartment. That would already be $360,000 in rent. Hmmm, So big sis already received $360,000 Plus in benefits, over the ten years, that her siblings did not receive. IMHO, if the parents wanted just one child to have all that money they should have put it in a will. And, now big sis wants her daughter to receive the house at a huge, huge discount further decreasing the inheritance of her siblings.

Ten years of rent on an entire house in California?!? Wowser! Look at how much big sis already received more than her siblings.

Again, if her parents wanted to pay for her caregiving that is perfectly fine (even a good idea) but obviously they did not want to do that or they would have put it in writing (or deeded her a larger percentage of the house or something similar).
How much caregiving did she do? $360,000 plus worth? And, $600,000 worth (if her daughter gets the house at a great discount)? That is over a million dollars. Even wealthy siblings probably would not want to give up their share of a million plus dollars.

Last edited by germaine2626; Yesterday at 03:17 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 02:32 PM
 
Location: Columbia SC
9,318 posts, read 8,058,542 times
Reputation: 12961
There was a similar situation in my family. Dad died, left everything to the wife. The wife died, left everything including her house which sat on a rather large piece of property to her 4 children to be split equally. Two of her grandkids (adults in their 30's) wanted to buy the property. 3 of her 4 kids set a price. The 4th said the price was way to low. He wanted to bring an appraiser in to appraise the property. His 3 siblings fought him about it. He said unless appraised, he would not sign over his 4th. They finally agreed to bring two appraisers in. Both appraised the house (crappy place) and the land at a much higher figure than the 3 would have sold it for. When all was said and done, the two grandkids agreed to buy it for the appraised price. They then split it into two lots and both built on it. It took 10 years for that family split to heal.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 02:57 PM
 
42 posts, read 3,041 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by twinkletwinkle22 View Post
Bitey said: Will or no will, the estate still needs to go through the probate process. There is a default procedure for the courts to follow in the event of no will -- chances are it will be similar to what is already structured in the house deed (equally divided among siblings).

The OP later said the property was already titled in the 8 siblings names so this asset is not part of the probate process at all. That makes it a much less expensive process to get it sold. No estate lawyer needed, no probate. A simple partition lawsuit brought by any one or more of the people named on the deed. BUT the deed must have been recorded at the county office.
A simple partitions sounds appealing
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old Yesterday, 03:40 PM
Status: "South Carolina: real home of the confederacy" (set 22 days ago)
 
Location: Seattle
5,160 posts, read 3,170,733 times
Reputation: 3617
Money
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply

Quick Reply
Message:


Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Real Estate
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top