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Old 09-27-2019, 07:44 AM
 
978 posts, read 873,755 times
Reputation: 2702

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Quote:
Originally Posted by iSudo View Post
But when we listed, our goal was to see if we could get what we wanted, not that we were desperate to move.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSudo View Post
My agent has failed at advising us at just about every pivotal point during this process.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSudo View Post
Our cat is potty trained, it doesn't pee on the flooring, and the litter is concealed and stored in a concrete space in the basement. It's a bogus excuse, and only 1 individual commented on that during our 30+ showings.
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSudo View Post
We only have a cat, but I can tell you she'll be our last pet adoption after she's gone because of this experience.
OP, I believe you. I'm betting your house is everything you say it is, and your frustration is apparent and is undoubtedly making you crazy. My guess is you are caught in the seasonal crunch of a slowing market with stagnant or rising inventory, and it's probably true that the only thing you can do if you need to sell quickly is to drop the price. You are also hampered by an ineffective agent.

You implied early on that you didn't NEED to move. Is that still true? If so, in your position, I would fire your agent, take the house off the market until spring (and use that time to research new RE agents and evaluate whether framing in the room in the basement makes financial sense), stroke your cat, and relax and enjoy the winter holidays.

Don't blame your fur buddy! As you suspect, she is NOT the reason you aren't getting offers. People feel pressured to give excuses for their preferences or actions, and often can't or don't articulate the real reasons for them. My friends listed their house in early September (beginning of the market slowdown around here) and even though it's a gorgeously designed and presented property, appropriately priced, they have yet to receive an offer after multiple showings. The objections have been to the paint color, the type of granite in the kitchen, and the fact that the driveway is gravel not asphalt. Rubbing salt in the wound is the fact that a higher priced but roughly equivalent property one block further in on the same gravel road listed around the same time and went under contract within three weeks, possibly because it had a larger horse barn.

Selling anything as expensive as a house has a large luck component, and it just looks like fortune is not working in your favor right now.
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Old 09-27-2019, 07:54 AM
 
Location: East Coast
3,299 posts, read 2,009,231 times
Reputation: 4991
Quote:
Originally Posted by City Guy997S View Post
Market is hot, feels like 2005 again so people are trying everything they can to reduce the sale price.

Sellers are miffed about the 5-6% commissions and realtors that just want the deal to get done at any price.

Buyers are expecting the world and want crazy reductions.

A friend is selling an admittedly 80's house. They bought in 2005 (paid too much), used it as a winter/vacation home with not putting any money in it. It's listed for over 500K, first contract looked like a go until the buyer wanted $30,000 off for a new kitchen. House was being sold "AS IS" and the kitchen is fully functional but it has old style cabinets/countertops. Price was agreed upon in the contract and the seller came up with the new kitchen idea in the inspection period. Seller laughed and buyer moved on.
This makes no sense to me. If the buyer has a mortgage, the banks don't like funny business going on at the closings, with cash being funneled back to the buyer. It's like they're getting a second $30K loan without the bank knowing.

For an above-board offer, with no shenanigans, the buyer should have just offered $470K. Seller could take it or leave it. (Or counter.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSudo View Post
I donít know why I have to keep explaining that I donít live in a 1960s love shack. You make these assumptions, because you want it to fit the narrative. But youíre wrong. The ďhouseĒ that we live in has been modernly updated in the past five years with relatively neutral updates. We donít have that much furniture between two people. We donít have much decor up on the walls or shelves either. At this point, it looks like a model home. Pet smells are not a valid reason for a deep discount. Iíve moved into homes that have had pets or odors of foods/spices and did not complain about it as a reason for a concession. If odor is an issue for a buyer, Iím open to a few hundred dollar credit for them to steam clean what little carpet exists in the home. Most of the flooring is hard surfaces, so very easy to clean.

What I suspect is that it is probably the pricing in comparison to some of the comps that is turning people away. If we were more aggressively priced, then Iím guessing weíd have sold sooner than three weeks. But when we listed, our goal was to see if we could get what we wanted, not that we were desperate to move.
I still just don't get this entire idea of "discount." Houses are not retail items in a store. Each house is unique. Figuring out the market value can be tricky. Buyers can offer what they believe the house is worth, regardless of whether the factors they personally use to determine the value or valid or not.

When we were house hunting at one point, we were shown a house that was mostly empty, but not completely -- there were a few computers and mattresses on the floors of some of the bedrooms. But the ENTIRE house had an overwhelming smell of curry. I couldn't get past it and we didn't even consider making an offer. I had to assume that the curry smell was so deeply embedded in the carpet and walls that it would immediately require some kind of mitigation efforts before even moving in. Maybe someone had just made an enormous batch of curry to store for the winter moments before leaving the house for the showing, and it wouldn't have been such a big deal. In this particular case, the house was just like dozens of other houses we were seeing, so there was no compelling reason for us to want that house. IF this house had otherwise been fabulous, I would have just made a lower offer. I wouldn't have tried to defraud the bank by asking for money back under the table.

Quote:
Originally Posted by HokieFan View Post
I thought you said your house is a townhouse? If so, you'll need to filter out the single family homes as those aren't comparables.

And from the parameters you set, it does look like your home is a 2BR home. That will certainly make your buyer pool more shallow.

As I told another poster who had a significant number of showings but no offers: the listing, the price, the photos are good enough to get them in your home but, IMO, there is something about your home that is turning off buyers when they see it in person.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSudo View Post
People looking at our listing know it's a 2-BR before they show up. We have space for a 3rd in the basement, as others have done with their homes. We are exploring the cost to add the additional room just to say we have it. However, we are also priced below the 3BR units, but maybe not enough. That has yet to be discussed with our agent, but we are meeting with him soon.

With regards to the topic and the links I posted, my point is that we are hardly being demanding in our price with the market we're in. We're priced at about 10% over what we were appraised at a couple years ago. In the local market, homes have been appreciating at 3-4% mark year over year. So we may be a little on the higher side but not outrageously; nothing a $5k price drop shouldn't correct. Yes, those are single family detached homes. We're also $100-$200k below their asking prices. My point is look at those homes. Those tiny, outdated bungalows are selling for nearly half a million dollars. Respectively, we are priced according to what other homes comparable to ours are priced at but with lots of recent updates.

You're right, we need to find out why our house isn't selling. We've had over 30 distinct parties come through in the past three weeks, and no offers. We've been told we were priced accordingly by some agents including our own. We were told that a couple interested parties passed because there wasn't an attached garage or a two car garage; only a one car detached.

There are other points we need to address with our agent, who has been radio silent throughout most of this process. He has given us little to no guidance of his own through this process, which is why I'm here and my spouse has been spending hours reading up on staging and decluttering on our free time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okey Dokie View Post
If Iíve got this straight...you have a 2 bedroom townhouse? The 2 bedrooms is very limiting. Even a married couple with no kids would probably pass if they had plans for a family in the future. Empty nesters might pass if they are sleeping in separate rooms due to snoring/sleep issues and wanted a guest room or study/den/office too.

Someone who is looking for a single family home is not going to consider a townhouse if the supply of single family homes is adequate.

So your target buyer is a single who wants a townhouse. A fairly small pool.
Yeah, your comps are 2 BR townhouses. It doesn't matter if it has as much space as a 3 BR or that a 3rd BR could easily be added. People who are looking for a 3 BR aren't even going to see your house. Maybe a good agent will show clients your house and point out that 3 BR could easily be added, but anyone just looking casually on their own, or who has a bad or lazy agent isn't ever going to see your house because they're going to click the box that says 3+ bedrooms. When we moved into our most recent house, we really wanted and needed a 4 bedroom. We have two kids, and wanted each of them to have their own bedroom, but also needed a bedroom for guests, and to use as a spare. But I checked the 3+ bedroom box, because as long as there was some space that could be used for guests, that was fine -- a finished basement, or a room that's technically called an "office" (maybe it didn't have a closet, or didn't have proper windows/egress, or whatever that wouldn't allow it to be called a "bedroom.) But not all buyers will do this. So you have to go with what your category is -- a 2 BR townhouse. Those SFHs aren't true comps because there are people out there who want only a SFH and will not consider a townhouse under any circumstances. Even if they were newer, larger, and nicer than the nearby SFHs. Too many people are SFH or bust.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iSudo View Post
I would love to do that, if for anything else, to prove to the doubters that my house is not a crap hole. But I don't trust posting my personal info on an anonymous forum. With all due respect to those just wanting to lend a helping hand, I don't know any of you, and I don't want to open myself up to some mentally unstable lunatic stalker. Someone just DM'd me saying that they attempted to track down my listing, and I have not volunteered any of that info to anyone, nor do I want anyone trying to track me down.
I totally understand this. I would be reluctant to post my listing or anything that would give too much information to make me easily findable. Maybe you could post a few photos as thumbnails that aren't the same photos as are in your listing?

It can be hard when you are selling a house that is in a very large complex. Because there are always other houses that can be had for cheaper. Are you, by any chance, in a 55+ community? That has a limited buyer pool already.
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,633 posts, read 12,277,113 times
Reputation: 33145
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSudo View Post
As I have mentioned, there is a partially finished basement and room for another bedroom, so itís not as if the space is already maxed out. There is room for growth in the home. That should count for more than a house or condo that has no additional space to grow into.

And given what this place appraised at two years ago, accounting for appreciation, weíre probably priced about $5-$7k too high at most. That would reasonably put us almost $15-20k below a unit of comparable size that added the extra room. Keep in mind we mostly have the same square footage and updates. Asking us for any deeper of a discount than that is arguing that our house is barely worth more than what it was worth two years ago and that is absurd in this market. What do you think? Is your house worth about the same as it was two years ago notwithstanding any major renovations?

I believe the article you linked to is describing homes that are also significantly different in size. Itís one thing if weíre talking a difference of a 2 bedroom home that is 500 sq ft smaller than the next 3 br. Itís a different situation when two places are the same size, and one has just added an additional bedroom than another. Thatís why our comps arenít as highly variable. We literally have the same space and layout, they just added an extra bedroom in the basement. I donít think that constitutes a $50k premium, but $20k seems reasonable.
You pretty much ignored what I said - I was describing the exact same situation of two places that are the same size but one has an additional bedroom and bathroom. As I described, these are houses with the same floor plan, and the same square footage but the ones with a finished basement (and additional full bath on the same level) are selling for 35K to 50K more than the exact same house, same floor plan, etc. but without that finished basement with the bedroom and bathroom. Your house is lower priced overall, so the differential is likely smaller, but I still think it's bigger than you are assuming it is.

As for the prior appraisal, what was that for? If you weren't selling then, did that really reflect what houses were actually selling for at that point? I will say that yes, even in this market, while prices aren't falling, they are no longer climbing at a meteoric pace either.

Quote:
Part of the struggle the local market faces is that sellers continue to hold unrealistic expectations of what they can get for their homes. That stubbornness has caused some listings that went on the market in March to still be sitting there.

ďA lot of sellers have been overpricing their properties, and they are taking longer to sell,Ē he said.

To back up his point, he provides some statistics from the past week. In the past seven days in the six-county core metro area, there have been 1,847 new listings, but also 2,091 price decreases on existing listings.
https://www.denverpost.com/2019/09/2...agging-zillow/
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:47 AM
 
Location: Loudon, TN
6,153 posts, read 5,069,480 times
Reputation: 21111
To me, the fact that it's a 2 bdrm is much more of a negative than decor or pets. There's just a much smaller pool of buyers for a 2 bdrm. I purposely bought a 4 bdrm home once, even though I only needed a 2 bdrm, just because I knew the resale would be much better and easier for a 4 bdrm. It sounds like a basement bdrm wouldn't cost that much to add, but then I'd be concerned if there's not a bath on that level. Who wants to go upstairs in the middle of the night to use the restroom?
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Old 09-27-2019, 08:53 AM
 
127 posts, read 32,460 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by chicagoliz View Post
Yeah, your comps are 2 BR townhouses. It doesn't matter if it has as much space as a 3 BR or that a 3rd BR could easily be added. People who are looking for a 3 BR aren't even going to see your house. Maybe a good agent will show clients your house and point out that 3 BR could easily be added, but anyone just looking casually on their own, or who has a bad or lazy agent isn't ever going to see your house because they're going to click the box that says 3+ bedrooms. When we moved into our most recent house, we really wanted and needed a 4 bedroom. We have two kids, and wanted each of them to have their own bedroom, but also needed a bedroom for guests, and to use as a spare. But I checked the 3+ bedroom box, because as long as there was some space that could be used for guests, that was fine -- a finished basement, or a room that's technically called an "office" (maybe it didn't have a closet, or didn't have proper windows/egress, or whatever that wouldn't allow it to be called a "bedroom.) But not all buyers will do this. So you have to go with what your category is -- a 2 BR townhouse. Those SFHs aren't true comps because there are people out there who want only a SFH and will not consider a townhouse under any circumstances. Even if they were newer, larger, and nicer than the nearby SFHs. Too many people are SFH or bust.
I totally agree with you. It's awkward because it's a very big 2BR/2BA at nearly 2000 sq ft, but we bought what worked for us at the time. We're two people and we don't have or plan on having a family. Our initial thoughts when we saw the space was "Wow, we have a theater room! And space to create a home gym!" You tend to buy what works for you, not what you think is going to bring in the most sellers later on. Heck, we thought it was going to be our forever home, but our minds have changed.

We're looking into what it'll cost to throw up a few walls to create the additional bedroom. Not sure it'll be worth cost, because it's definitely not adding $50k of value to the comps in our community. But we'll see.


Quote:
I totally understand this. I would be reluctant to post my listing or anything that would give too much information to make me easily findable. Maybe you could post a few photos as thumbnails that aren't the same photos as are in your listing?
I was advised not to by a moderator in fact. Our listing is expired now, so maybe I can snap some pics of how it's currently staged. I'm still conserved that some savvy sleuth will try to reverse Google image search it. I've already had a handful of forum members message or comment that they think they found my listing after I have intentionally not shared that info.


Quote:
Are you, by any chance, in a 55+ community?
No, thank god.
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Old 09-27-2019, 09:03 AM
 
127 posts, read 32,460 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
You pretty much ignored what I said - I was describing the exact same situation of two places that are the same size but one has an additional bedroom and bathroom. As I described, these are houses with the same floor plan, and the same square footage but the ones with a finished basement (and additional full bath on the same level) are selling for 35K to 50K more than the exact same house, same floor plan, etc. but without that finished basement with the bedroom and bathroom. Your house is lower priced overall, so the differential is likely smaller, but I still think it's bigger than you are assuming it is.
And I'm telling you that adding a bedroom to a unit in our community is not adding $35k-$50k of value. If that were the case, then my home has lost value in two years when compared against those comps. And we both know that is not the case in most of metro Denver, unless maybe you live in a real bad area. We have multi-million dollar homes all around us, so I don't suspect that is the case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
As for the prior appraisal, what was that for? If you weren't selling then, did that really reflect what houses were actually selling for at that point? I will say that yes, even in this market, while prices aren't falling, they are no longer climbing at a meteoric pace either.
It was the appraisal we got when we bought the home two years ago. You're required to get one when you finance a home.

Did you read the link you posted? Just in the last year:

Quote:
Zillow said its Denver Home Price Index has risen 3.4% to $411,200 the past year through August.
I've estimated that through appreciation, we should be at least at between 6-7% increase over two years, on a conservative measure. On an aggressive measure, maybe 8%. Agreed, definitely not the 10-12% we were seeing in past years. Our listing price was intentionally on the higher end of what we thought we could get in order to get the most bang for our buck because we aren't desperate to sell. At most, we're probably $5-$7k over a more appropriate price to sell quicker. At the end of the day, we don't care all that much. Because again, we're not desperate to sell. We were only curious what we could get in the event that we wish to move to an area we find more desirable.

https://www.denverpost.com/2019/09/2...agging-zillow/[/quote]

Last edited by iSudo; 09-27-2019 at 09:19 AM..
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Old 09-27-2019, 09:05 AM
 
127 posts, read 32,460 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheShadow View Post
To me, the fact that it's a 2 bdrm is much more of a negative than decor or pets. There's just a much smaller pool of buyers for a 2 bdrm. I purposely bought a 4 bdrm home once, even though I only needed a 2 bdrm, just because I knew the resale would be much better and easier for a 4 bdrm. It sounds like a basement bdrm wouldn't cost that much to add, but then I'd be concerned if there's not a bath on that level. Who wants to go upstairs in the middle of the night to use the restroom?
Yeah, well there's a market for every thing. Our last 2br/2ba single level condo half the size of this sold in three days.

I bought this house on my own. An average four bedroom home in Denver is well over $450k, which was well over my price range two years ago on a single income.
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Kansas City North
4,259 posts, read 7,524,142 times
Reputation: 6575
You keep coming back to not getting enough feedback. Granted, sometimes it is a case of realtor incompetence, but it can also be that the buyer can not tell WHAT it is that’s turning them off (or at least not making their heart beat faster). They just know that your house is NOT the one. Or as I like to say “they’re not feeling the love.”
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:41 PM
 
127 posts, read 32,460 times
Reputation: 149
Quote:
Originally Posted by Okey Dokie View Post
You keep coming back to not getting enough feedback. Granted, sometimes it is a case of realtor incompetence, but it can also be that the buyer can not tell WHAT it is thatís turning them off (or at least not making their heart beat faster). They just know that your house is NOT the one. Or as I like to say ďtheyíre not feeling the love.Ē
I don't disagree at all. Just given the volume of showings/visitors, it was frustrating to us that we weren't making traction and we didn't know why other than taking shots in the dark to see what we could fix.
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Old 09-27-2019, 02:46 PM
 
1,017 posts, read 274,056 times
Reputation: 2348
Quote:
Originally Posted by iSudo View Post
You tend to buy what works for you, not what you think is going to bring in the most sellers later on.
Actually, a lot of people do just that when buying a home.
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