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Old 05-13-2008, 09:06 AM
 
4,537 posts, read 11,528,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePautsch View Post
AmbassadorNY - while I am generally a skeptic myself when told by another agent that "we have another offer coming in" and I agree that doing that when there truly IS no other offer is totally unethical...you are unfairly putting us, as real estate professionals, in a difficult situation.

If there IS another buyer and we DON'T tell you - you blame US for losing out on your 'dream' house. If we DO TELL you - you assume that the agent is just trying to get you to "hurry up" and complain about THAT.

I was just recently in the same situation working with some buyers long distance. They were considering an offer and when I contacted the listing agent she told me another agent was "threatening" to write an offer. I passed the information on to my buyers...along with a word of caution that an offer isn't an offer until its in writing - either from this OTHER buyer, or from them. Well, there WAS another offer and the house they were interested in isn't available any longer.

I guess for me, the bottom line is that there should be a high degree of trust between a client and their real estate professional. If there ISN'T that trust, then they shouldn't be working together. There are LOTS of extremely professional agents out there (many of them posting in this forum, offering their time and expertise to help other folks make good decisions)...and painting us all with the same broad brush isn't fair.
When I buy anything I never believe the "there is another buyer" and don't let it influence my offer. Even if it is true, there is always another house, car or whatever out there.
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Old 05-13-2008, 10:56 AM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,450,957 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbassadorNY View Post
I'm not incliding "all" agents into the category of being unethical. I had the same thing happen; I was told there was another offer, and sure enough, there was. What I AM saying is that there are a few agents in my area that are known for this tactic, and it's starting to spread more and more as a widely known "tactic". We're supposed to be ethical, and I, for one, consider myself (and you, obviously) to be just that, very ethical.

Yes, it's the nature of the beast that when we're told there's another offer, we don't know if it's true or not, however, in the state of NY, ALL offers, whether written or verbal are considered legal offers. I know you mwntioned that it's not a "real offer" unless it's in writing, however, such is not the case here. It's actually not a "truly acceptable" offer unless the pre-approval and Offer to Purchase is signed by the buyers. There's a big difference. I present almost 100% of my offers verbally at first until negotiations are done, then I fax everything in, this way I dont have to keep changing the Purchase Offer and re-sending faxes if the negotiated price keeps going up....

Congrats to you that you are one of the honest ones. I wish there were more of us out there rather than the beasts I've many times come across!
They are "good" offers but not enforceable unless in writing. The Statute of Frauds is alive and well in NY. If it got to be an issue I would think that a verbal offer is not in hand.

"Offer coming" is so vague as to be in the puffery class...for some value of "coming" there is always an offer.
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Old 05-13-2008, 11:55 AM
 
105 posts, read 312,615 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by olecapt View Post
They are "good" offers but not enforceable unless in writing. The Statute of Frauds is alive and well in NY. If it got to be an issue I would think that a verbal offer is not in hand.

"Offer coming" is so vague as to be in the puffery class...for some value of "coming" there is always an offer.
What I said was that ALL offers, written or verbal are still offers. I wasn't debating whether an offer was enforceable or not. Verbal offers are legitimate and someone on here said "it's not an offer unless it's an writing".
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Old 05-13-2008, 12:05 PM
 
Location: NW Las Vegas - Lone Mountain
15,756 posts, read 32,450,957 times
Reputation: 2661
Quote:
Originally Posted by AmbassadorNY View Post
What I said was that ALL offers, written or verbal are still offers. I wasn't debating whether an offer was enforceable or not. Verbal offers are legitimate and someone on here said "it's not an offer unless it's an writing".

An actually you would be wrong in some states like Nevada. Our statutes says the offers not reduced to writing are void.

You are on very dangerous ground if you ever get called on it. Is a "void" offer an offer? Is an nonenforceable offer an offer?

You might win and you might not. But either way it is a silly risk.
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:41 PM
 
34 posts, read 191,983 times
Reputation: 19
Default Can agents be honest?

It is the story happening today.

My friend Kyle is bidding an condo asking for 500k.
Buyer's agent say the bottom line is 476k, and there are another 3 offers all ~476k. (Buyer's and seller's agent are in the same agency, duel agency.)
The price makes sense, because comps in 6 month all sold ~480K.
Yesterday, Kyle decided to give up.
Last night, Buyer's agent say all 4 of them retreat. So, no offers right now!

I told Kyle, they are all lies. No offer, no bottom line.
Wait 2 more days, and offer 90% asking price. Take it or leave it.

Or he should just leave it?
It is soooo difficult to deal with dishonest buyer's agent.
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:48 PM
 
Location: Albany, OR
540 posts, read 1,893,593 times
Reputation: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by TimtheGuy View Post
When I buy anything I never believe the "there is another buyer" and don't let it influence my offer. Even if it is true, there is always another house, car or whatever out there.
TimtheGuy, I heartily agree with your sentiment to not let it affect your offer one way or the other. That suggests to me that you buy based on the logic - the business sense - of the deal...I wish more people were like that. Too often, people let emotion get wrapped up into this (oohhh, I love this house) and end up really limiting their negotiation leverage.

AmbassadorNY - I should probably have said "contract" vice offer...when it comes to real estate - contracts have to be in writing to be "valid" (or enforceable). I appreciate your sentiment...but I've had lots of people make verbal offers that never translated into anything on paper...
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Old 05-13-2008, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Albany, OR
540 posts, read 1,893,593 times
Reputation: 356
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkys View Post
It is the story happening today.

My friend Kyle is bidding an condo asking for 500k.
Buyer's agent say the bottom line is 476k, and there are another 3 offers all ~476k. (Buyer's and seller's agent are in the same agency, duel agency.)
The price makes sense, because comps in 6 month all sold ~480K.
Yesterday, Kyle decided to give up.
Last night, Buyer's agent say all 4 of them retreat. So, no offers right now!

I told Kyle, they are all lies. No offer, no bottom line.
Wait 2 more days, and offer 90% asking price. Take it or leave it.

Or he should just leave it?
It is soooo difficult to deal with dishonest buyer's agent.
First of all - I would not automatically ASSUME that it is all lies...there indeed may have been competing offers - and once they all found out they were in competition - none wanted to play the game. Sound thinking in today's market.

Secondly, as it now appears that they have NO offers - I would agree that a good strategy MIGHT be to approach them with an aggressive offer to open the door for negotiations (bottom lines often aren't - when the rubber meets the road). If no other offers come in, they will negotiate with your friend and AS LONG AS your friend knows his/her walk away price, and isn't emotionally attached - and has no OTHER contingencies that weaken his position - s/he should come out with a pretty good deal in the end.

DaveP
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Old 05-13-2008, 02:09 PM
 
34 posts, read 191,983 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePautsch View Post
First of all - I would not automatically ASSUME that it is all lies...there indeed may have been competing offers - and once they all found out they were in competition - none wanted to play the game. Sound thinking in today's market.

Secondly, as it now appears that they have NO offers - I would agree that a good strategy MIGHT be to approach them with an aggressive offer to open the door for negotiations (bottom lines often aren't - when the rubber meets the road). If no other offers come in, they will negotiate with your friend and AS LONG AS your friend knows his/her walk away price, and isn't emotionally attached - and has no OTHER contingencies that weaken his position - s/he should come out with a pretty good deal in the end.

DaveP
Thank you DaveP. I totally agree with you, buy based on the logic!
I walked away from negotiation last week. After taking a long time for negotiation, I found it is more difficult to walk away, since I already spent so much time. --emotionally attached
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Old 05-13-2008, 02:14 PM
 
34 posts, read 191,983 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by DavePautsch View Post
TimtheGuy, I heartily agree with your sentiment to not let it affect your offer one way or the other. That suggests to me that you buy based on the logic - the business sense - of the deal...I wish more people were like that. Too often, people let emotion get wrapped up into this (oohhh, I love this house) and end up really limiting their negotiation leverage.

AmbassadorNY - I should probably have said "contract" vice offer...when it comes to real estate - contracts have to be in writing to be "valid" (or enforceable). I appreciate your sentiment...but I've had lots of people make verbal offers that never translated into anything on paper...
Question!
I can walk away anytime (with my deposit) before signing contract (After faxing the offer)?
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Old 05-13-2008, 03:00 PM
 
69,372 posts, read 53,538,503 times
Reputation: 9357
Quote:
Originally Posted by funkys View Post
I am in NJ.
I never know there is a deposit for making an offer.
We are bidding 500k <there is another bidder than me, unbelievable!>
My agent ask me to put 1000 deposit and 35k ADDITIONAL deposit.

And he told me after the seller accept the offer, and before attorney review, I could always get the money back.

The other local agent told me.
I will losing all the money. The only exclusion is the seller regret in the midway.

I would like to know.
1. If we change our mind at which point, we will lose our 1000 and/or 35K deposit?
2. Is 35K deposit way toooooo much?


Thanks soooooooooo much!
I routinely put down 20% for various reasons.. 1, to show the seller that I'm VERY serious, and thereby able to negotiate a better deal, and 2, to side step any bank verification that we have funds available to buy the house.. (we already put 20% down)

That being said, if you change your mind, your out your deposit unless you write in your contract "unless we change our mind" at which point, your offer will be turned down.

If your not 100% sure you want the house, (far from any surprises) you shouldnt be making an offer on the house. Always build in contingent upon satisfactory appraisal, obtaining financing, and satisfactory home inspection, but no seller is going to take an offer that you can simply "change your mind" on.
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