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the real estate market but you post on here as if the whole country follows one trend line.
What in the world are you talking about? I never claim that the entire country follows one "trend line". The only claims I make about the "whole country" are those involving the credit markets, recession and other similar economic issues. These issues will effect real estate all over the country, but not necessarily in the same way. Houses in Austin are very unlikely to decline 50% from peak, but houses in Los Angeles can very easily decline that much.
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I listen to the experts, but I use my own filter and I always ask questions.
Great, listen to experts. But what exactly are Realtors experts on? Selling homes. Not the housing market or any other macroeconomic issues.
No offense, but why should people respect Realtor above and beyond the way they respect anybody else?
OP's point (that you've demonstrated quite admirably here and on other threads, by the way) is that there are people here who disrespect Realtors strictly because they are real estate agents. (That's called prejudice when applied to judging people by a single characteristic, by the way.)
Realtors aren't experts in housing, or lending etc. They are sales people.
Real estate agents - good ones - are a heck of a lot more than that. Getting the deal put together (finding a buyer for a house or finding a house for a buyer) is only the very beginning. However, if we're good at our job, you simply won't see that most of the time (and if you don't want to see it, you wouldn't see it anyway).
I wish Realtors would stick to giving advice to what they are good at, namely selling homes and stop giving advice about things they know little about like when is a "good time to buy" etc. The majority of "debates" between Realtors and others on this forum are regarding the direction of the housing market, lending and similar issues, not things that are related to actually selling a house like staging, marketing etc.
Since, based on the post above, clearly you have no idea what a real estate agent's "job" really is or what they need to know about in order to do it well, isn't it fair that you refrain from giving opinions about that?
disrespect Realtors strictly because they are real estate agents.
If having an opinion about Realtors means I disrespect them...then okay? But otherwise, I don't insult any Realtors here and I never post on threads that aren't regarding real estate as it relates to macroeconomics. In fact I don't think any of us "nay sayers" do such things.
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Real estate agents - good ones - are a heck of a lot more than that.
No they really aren't. Nothing wrong with being a sales person. If being a Realtor truly required knowledge about the housing market and other economic issues then Realtors would need degrees in economics etc. But you need to do very little to become a real estate agent. I know many real estate agents that do well that know next to nothing about the housing as it relates to economics. Anyhow, my point is not that every Realtor knows nothing about these things, but rather that there is nothing about becoming a Realtor that requires knowledge of these issues. Therefore, a Realtor is hardly an expert on such matters.
If having an opinion about Realtors means I disrespect them...then okay? But otherwise, I don't insult any Realtors here and I never post on threads that aren't regarding real estate as it relates to macroeconomics. In fact I don't think any of us "nay sayers" do such things.
I have seen Realtors referred to as 'scum', 'scammers', 'liars' and worse on these forums by "nay sayers". These are gross generalisations and very impolite.
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Originally Posted by Humanoid
No they really aren't. Nothing wrong with being a sales person.
Nothing indeed. I have been a sales person, CEO, teacher and pro athlete before becoming a Realtor. I guess people have opinions about all those career choices but none seem to be so aggressively and self-righteously aired as those opinions concerning Realtors. I now earn less than in some roles and more than in others, and (with the advantage of comparative hind-sight) I consider helping people with one of the biggest decisions in their lives to be far more involved, far-reaching and in-depth than *just* a sales position.
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Originally Posted by Humanoid
If being a Realtor truly required knowledge about the housing market and other economic issues then Realtors would need degrees in economics etc. But you need to do very little to become a real estate agent. I know many real estate agents that do well that know next to nothing about the housing as it relates to economics. Anyhow, my point is not that every Realtor knows nothing about these things, but rather that there is nothing about becoming a Realtor that requires knowledge of these issues. Therefore, a Realtor is hardly an expert on such matters.
Becoming a Realtor requires very little in terms of knowledge, training and skill-set. Becoming a great Realtor who lasts longer than a year or two requires on-going training, education, experience, dedication, ethics, kindness and intelligence.
Define 'doing well'? If that means excellence and dedication then a knowledge of, and interest in, the market you do business in (including from a macro-economic perspective) is of course going to make you better at your job. Analysing local market data does provide buyers and sellers facts to give them an indication of what is happening - but is not a crystal ball. A doctor can't generally tell you when you're going to get sick, but s/he probably knows more about the human body than the average Realtor. Her/ his advice will probably also help you recover from your illness more quickly than a flight-attendant's -even one who's done a bunch of research on the internet, and been pretty sick herself too.
Being successful at their careers, that is getting paid well.
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Analysing local market data does provide buyers and sellers facts to give them an indication of what is happening - but is not a crystal ball.
Realtor do typically know what is going on with the "local data". They will know which houses have sold for what lately etc etc. This is dramatically different than knowing what is going on in housing in general, but such knowledge is rather important if you want to make claims about "now is a good time to buy" etc. The reason is simple, take the analogy of weather and weather prediction. The Realtor only will know the storm when it hits his/her area (i.e., when it shows up in the "local data"), where as the economist can predict when the storm is going to come and predict how badly it may effect such and such region. Again, my biggest problem with Realtors is they try to make macroeconomic predictions, but they aren't qualified in any sense to do so.
[quote=Humanoid;4800535]Being successful at their careers, that is getting paid well.
Realtor do typically know what is going on with the "local data". They will know which houses have sold for what lately etc etc. This is dramatically different than knowing what is going on in housing in general, but such knowledge is rather important if you want to make claims about "now is a good time to buy" etc. The reason is simple, take the analogy of weather and weather prediction. The Realtor only will know the storm when it hits his/her area (i.e., when it shows up in the "local data"), where as the economist can predict when the storm is going to come and predict how badly it may effect such and such region. Again, my biggest problem with Realtors is they try to make macroeconomic predictions, but they aren't qualified in any sense to do so.[/QUOTE]
I'm not a realtor and have managed to get the same info just as fast as most realtors and even have given comps to realtors when I was presenting my offer (they never even saw these comps. thems elf upon me giving it to them).....make you think what is so special about the term" pulling comps." as many realtors over here are stating that only they can do and want you to believe how difficult their job is...
Being successful at their careers, that is getting paid well.
Realtor do typically know what is going on with the "local data". They will know which houses have sold for what lately etc etc. This is dramatically different than knowing what is going on in housing in general, but such knowledge is rather important if you want to make claims about "now is a good time to buy" etc. The reason is simple, take the analogy of weather and weather prediction. The Realtor only will know the storm when it hits his/her area (i.e., when it shows up in the "local data"), where as the economist can predict when the storm is going to come and predict how badly it may effect such and such region. Again, my biggest problem with Realtors is they try to make macroeconomic predictions, but they aren't qualified in any sense to do so.
If all you are getting from your Realtor is a list of 'which houses have sold for what' lately then maybe you should look for another Realtor. Realtors have access to historical data going back years and this is probably more useful in coming to a real estate decision. Months' supply of inventory is a useful indicator of how a local market is performing especially when compared to data from previous years. It gives a buyer or seller a good idea of how well homes are selling in that locale. The pending-to-sold ratio also provides a good idea of whether the local market is gaining or losing momentum. A good Realtor can gather, compile and present this data. It gives an intelligent buyer or seller more tools to make their own decision as to whether to buy / sell or not. All markets are different, and focusing solely on macroeconomic data might provide a misleading analysis.
I think under everyones name they should have their "title" listed so we can weigh their qualifications against the basis of opinion.
Excellent point...to those that don't offer a "title" under their name..why not? When I have a question I like hearing directly from the source...it helps weed-out "posers"...lol...Sunny
Realtors have access to historical data going back years and this is probably more useful in coming to a real estate decision. Months' supply of inventory is a useful indicator of how a local market is performing especially when compared to data from previous years. It gives a buyer or seller a good idea of how well homes are selling in that locale.
Sure, Realtor typical know this information. Note the "etc etc" in my original post. I didn't want to list everything a Realtor typical knows about their local market. But, all of this information can be easily collected by a buyer.
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All markets are different, and focusing solely on macroeconomic data might provide a misleading analysis.
Only if you pretend that what is going on in the economy is going to effect every area equally. I haven't seen anybody make this claim.
I think the reason why real estate agents often tout themselves as experts in areas that stray outside of their realm of expertise is because they actively market themselves as professionals. Many people naturally come to trust the advice given to them by a hired professional (such as a lawyer, doctor, or accountant), and real estate agents try to feed off of that level of trust.
Sadly, in my opinion, real estate agents are not the professionals they try to pass themselves on as. When questioned, many real estate agents on this board will compare themselves to a doctor or lawyer in terms of required professionalism and knowledge in their area of expertise. What they won't tell you is that there are little to no education or experience requirements to perform their job. Doctors and lawyers spend nearly a decade in post secondary schools, while undergoing grueling examination and scrutiny by their peers. Even then, simply graduating from their courses is not enough to legally practice their desired profession. Bar examinations and review boards constantly verify that service and advice is sound and legally accountable. Real estate agents take a few night classes, pay their NAR dues and are allowed to call themselves Realtors (with a capital R).
Real estate agents do not have this elaborate system of checks and balances in place to ensure that the advice and knowledge they pass on to their clients is accurate, which should be considered a giant red flag to clients who are eliciting their advice.
Another example of what keeps me from considering real estate agents as the professionals they strive to be is their pay structure. If you were to go to your doctor's office and explain to them that you will pay them 6% of the total cost of your surgery, they will laugh you out of their office. The same goes for lawyers and accountants. Their level of expertise, and accountability, allow them to command high hourly wages. Because real estate agents are paid based on a commission of the sale, their job duties and responsibilities fall in line with a commissioned salesperson (such as furniture or used cars).
While I don't disrespect real estate agents (I understand it can be difficult to make a living from a profession that is paid solely on commission in a market that is in a strict decline), I take all their advice with a grain of salt. As has been previously mentioned in this thread, real estate agents rely on sales to make a living, and as such their advice is generally biased.
If I want a fair market value of a home I'm considering, I contact a licensed appraiser and have them value the home. If I want to know the condition of a home, I contact a licensed home inspector. If I want to draft contracts and offers, I contact a real estate attorney. However, if I just want to tour homes in a neighborhood, I will contact a real estate agent.
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