Purchasing a home with no agent (price, attorney, claim, broker)

[wileynj]

Originally Posted by brookdaleresident

no, and yes. we have a contingency on our offer. we also have 3 interested parties taking a second look this weekend. trust me, when I sell, you'll know it!

EXCELLENT! I will keep my fingers and toes crossed for you! I just put mine back on the market as 3 homes in my area just sold! I think we took ours off too soon - Dumb Irish luck..lol. Spread some of that luck my way please : ) Things in NJ do seem to be picking up... tons of "Under Contract Signs" and or "Sold" signs. But with that said, I have some bad news for you...we aren't heading to GA anymore. Makes more sense to stay in NJ if we can. Probably heading more west than we are now. You can still get bargains in NJ - you just have to keep looking!
Well let me know how it goes..I'm cheering for you!!

[wileynj]

OP...this is a great NJ website if you want to find out what the seller paid originally. Just keep in mind... it probably doesn't include upgrades, etc. Just type in the street address and walah!

www.datauniverse.com

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by deno088

Your kidding right?
Or better yet I can post it like you would-
You're kidding right?

Nope . not kidding..

IT's right there type written. . SHE PRICED THE HOME 20K BELOW market! AND on top of that I"m sure a buyer just didn't come in and offer her her full asking price..

BUT .. obviously getting as much money for the home wasn't as important.. and she had the time to do it herself.

See.. here's the thing.. most people have full time jobs... and a Realtors full time job is to sell your home..

So.. if someone wants to see the house at 2pm in the afternoon.. or a potential buyer decides to inquire about the listing no their lunch hour while the FSBO is at work.. the FSBO will lose out on that buyer.. the Realtor will answre the phone, go and show the home etc. People are fickle and they expect an instant response.. and in a market where there are so many choices, they'll move righ ton to the next home.. THAHT is just one example!!

It's simply.. and the numbers prove it.. people that sell their homes on their own net LESS money without paying commission than someone that lists their home with a Realtor AND pays commission. In addition it takes a FSBO twice as long to sell.

I amnot an active agent now (I had a bayb and so I cut out working for now).. but I'm selling my home. I could have done it myself as my own agent.. BUT.. I knew that it would be best to have someone OTHER than myself handle it.. WhY? Because if I ever wanted any honest feedback on the sale of my home I wouldn't get it doing it myself.. no one wants to insult the homeowner.. I also needed someone to be a little more objective when it came to my house .. someone NOT emotionally attatched to it.

But guess what.. when I do buy next I will be going to visit FSBO's.. and yuo want to know why? Becausee a) I'm a good negotiator.. it's what I do for a living.. and the homeowner most likely is not.. so I'd win most likely on the negotiating end.

and of course.. I'm looking to pay LESS for a house than would someone listing the home with an agent.. basically saving myself the commission by taking it off the offer price (market less 6% probably) when I put in my offer...

And THERE IN is the crux of the problem for FSBO's . Most know that they are NOT paying the 6%.. and most homes that are considered "market vlaue" netted the homeowner the sale price less the commission.. and so they are looking to get a "deal" and save themselves the commmission...

So you have an owner looking to sell FSBO so that he can net more money..but buyers looking to pay out less..

And in the end.. the FSBO usually ends up selling for a lot less tan if he listed it with a Realtor.. AND because he doesn't have the volume of buyers through that a house on MLS would.. or one with a Realtor.. he'll end up with fewer buyers to choose from.

can some sell their own home absolutely.. .if they don't mind doing the work themselves in twice the time for a lot less money.

And in THIS market.. it will be even harder for them to do so (they even had a hard time in the hot market!)

It's NOT as easy as some people think..

[kikimar]

I should have been more clear.

The 2 CMAs I had done had my house priced between 299,000 and 329,000. I listed at 310,000.

I got full asking. I don't think I compromised on price at all, I priced it right to sell fast, and to appeal to young first timers. I could have priced at 330,000. But, I wanted more people to look.

I worked hard to sell it. I have a background in marketing and design and worked for 5 years negotiating contracts for a large software company.

if you have the time, FSBO it is worth it.

[Bill Keegan]

Originally Posted by kikimar

I should have been more clear.

The 2 CMAs I had done had my house priced between 299,000 and 329,000. I listed at 310,000.

I got full asking. I don't think I compromised on price at all, I priced it right to sell fast, and to appeal to young first timers. I could have priced at 330,000. But, I wanted more people to look.

I worked hard to sell it. I have a background in marketing and design and worked for 5 years negotiating contracts for a large software company.

if you have the time, FSBO it is worth it.

I think that statement is correct, but incomplete.
If you have the time, the energy, the knowledge, the experience, the resources, the money and the tools, FSBO can be worth it. The process of selling a house is no magical mystical thing that homeowners aren't capable of doing. But it does require a good bit of work and effort to do it, and a good bit of knowledge in order to do it RIGHT. You can compare it to your dinner. You want Chicken Cordon Blue? Sure, you can go buy all the ingredients, grab a recipe from some web site, and make it yourself at home. It would probably cost you a grand total of $6.00. But is that really going to be the same, and will it satisfy you as well as, sitting down at a table at Tavern on the Green and having their $22 chicken cordon blue? No, it's not. For a whole variety of reasons. And most people would agree that the $22.00 was well spent, regardless of the fact t hat the actual ingredient cost was such a small part of it. It's the same with selling a house. Of course you can do it yourself. Some people will even do it WELL themselves. And ther dollar cost of buying some signs & placing an ad will be a fraction of the total fee you would pay a good real estate marketing agent. But on the whole, most people do NOT have the time, the energy, the resources, or the knowledge to do it right. Because it's not what they do every day. They have other jobs, other lives, other STUFF, that they need to deal with.

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by kikimar

I should have been more clear.

The 2 CMAs I had done had my house priced between 299,000 and 329,000. I listed at 310,000.

I got full asking. I don't think I compromised on price at all, I priced it right to sell fast, and to appeal to young first timers. I could have priced at 330,000. But, I wanted more people to look.

I worked hard to sell it. I have a background in marketing and design and worked for 5 years negotiating contracts for a large software company.

if you have the time, FSBO it is worth it.

Somene below your original post said it right.

ANd your postings are clear.. you said it yourself.. you have the negotiating ability, the design ability (probaly staged your house very well) and most importantly the time to do it all yourself. Most homeowners do not have all the ingredients to make a FSBO work for them.. some do and they have successes like yourself.. others don't, sell for a lot less or end up listing with a professional that does.

[Austin-Willy]

I saw a home on MLS, drove by to make sure I was interested, then called the listing agent and told her I was interested in the house but was not represented and did not want to be. Asked if she would be willing to accept just the 3% commission as the seller's agent. She hesitated for a moment, but then agreed. Of course she expected me to do my fair share of the work on the transaction. (Which is more than a buyer's agent does many times. Just read the threads on these forums if you have a question about that.) Then I simply told the seller that if/when I submit my offer that it is the equivalent of an offer 3% higher from someone with an agent.

Ultimately didn't pull the trigger on that house. Second house caught my attention. Same story, only this time the agent didn't hesitate. He would accept 3%.

It can happen. It does happen. If an agent is looking out for their principal's best interests, it will happen if requested by an unrep'd buyer.

Agents don't get paid based on how much work they put into the transaction. As everyone knows, they get paid solely based on the price of the home. The argument that the seller's agent should get 6% because they will be doing more work doesn't hold water. Agents do (or should do) whatever it takes to sell the house. If they get stuck with a bad agent on the other side, or no agent at all, that is just part of it.

All of this stuff about how your transaction won't work out if you don't have an agent, or how you will get a worse deal, or how you can't negotiate purchase price based on the fact that you will save the seller 3%... it's all simply a scare tactic intended to deceive people into thinking that an agent is a necessity. It's simply not true.

If you are smart and dedicated to earning that 3% yourself, you can do it. It isn't rocket science (or brain surgery, previous claims by an agent on this board notwithstanding).

This is a good example of why, as a seller, you should negotiate the listing agreement to provide that the listing agent gets only 3% if the buyer is unrepresented. Do it upfront. If the agent balks, find another.

As for the question of how to go about making an offer, it should be in writing. There is nothing stopping you from simply talking to the seller (unless the seller wants to use the agent as a screen). But if I'm a seller, I don't take an oral offer seriously.

So to submit an offer, you need a contract. Many states have standard forms that are promulgated by different agencies. You could simply ask the listing agent what form contract she would prefer to receive the offer on, and get her to send you the blank form. If she acts like this is too much trouble, well then she is obviously lazy, and you should talk to the seller themselves. I'm sure with their encouragement the agent could find time in her schedule to send you the form. If the agent says the form is restricted for use by Realtors, ask for a different form. If she is not resourceful enough to provide one, the seller should be made aware of that fact.

The dollar store comparison is just laughable. The agent isn't the clothes. The house is the clothes. The agent is the salesperson. Try again.

I like my steaks cooked on my grill in the backyard.

[TristansMommy]

Originally Posted by Austin-Willy

I saw a home on MLS, drove by to make sure I was interested, then called the listing agent and told her I was interested in the house but was not represented and did not want to be. Asked if she would be willing to accept just the 3% commission as the seller's agent. She hesitated for a moment, but then agreed. Of course she expected me to do my fair share of the work on the transaction. (Which is more than a buyer's agent does many times. Just read the threads on these forums if you have a question about that.) Then I simply told the seller that if/when I submit my offer that it is the equivalent of an offer 3% higher from someone with an agent.

Ultimately didn't pull the trigger on that house. Second house caught my attention. Same story, only this time the agent didn't hesitate. He would accept 3%.

It can happen. It does happen. If an agent is looking out for their principal's best interests, it will happen if requested by an unrep'd buyer.

Agents don't get paid based on how much work they put into the transaction. As everyone knows, they get paid solely based on the price of the home. The argument that the seller's agent should get 6% because they will be doing more work doesn't hold water. Agents do (or should do) whatever it takes to sell the house. If they get stuck with a bad agent on the other side, or no agent at all, that is just part of it.

All of this stuff about how your transaction won't work out if you don't have an agent, or how you will get a worse deal, or how you can't negotiate purchase price based on the fact that you will save the seller 3%... it's all simply a scare tactic intended to deceive people into thinking that an agent is a necessity. It's simply not true.

If you are smart and dedicated to earning that 3% yourself, you can do it. It isn't rocket science (or brain surgery, previous claims by an agent on this board notwithstanding).

This is a good example of why, as a seller, you should negotiate the listing agreement to provide that the listing agent gets only 3% if the buyer is unrepresented. Do it upfront. If the agent balks, find another.

As for the question of how to go about making an offer, it should be in writing. There is nothing stopping you from simply talking to the seller (unless the seller wants to use the agent as a screen). But if I'm a seller, I don't take an oral offer seriously.

So to submit an offer, you need a contract. Many states have standard forms that are promulgated by different agencies. You could simply ask the listing agent what form contract she would prefer to receive the offer on, and get her to send you the blank form. If she acts like this is too much trouble, well then she is obviously lazy, and you should talk to the seller themselves. I'm sure with their encouragement the agent could find time in her schedule to send you the form. If the agent says the form is restricted for use by Realtors, ask for a different form. If she is not resourceful enough to provide one, the seller should be made aware of that fact.

The dollar store comparison is just laughable. The agent isn't the clothes. The house is the clothes. The agent is the salesperson. Try again.

I like my steaks cooked on my grill in the backyard.

Again.. if that agent made that arrangement she better have gotten approval from her broker... first of all! Secondly... the commission agreement is done ahead of time between her and the seller.. THe seller ALREADY agreed that they would pay whatever pre-agreed upon percent of a price to the agent.

Now.. that being said.. I don't doubt that happens.. BUT.. i will tell you this.. THat agent is NOT a strong agent, for one. Number 2, if she continues to cut her commission like that she'll be out of the business fast because she will not make any money . See.. she'll be getting about 1.5% of that 3%.. so lets say that the listing sold for $250,000.. she'll make $3750 (that is if she has a 50/50 split with her broker) and of course she'll have to put income taxes aside from that.. which lets just say is 20% (self employed individuals pay double SS because of no contribution match from an employer!). Now.. lets say that house has been on the market for about 6 months (in a hot market it was abuot 3 months).. and some have been on longer.. Add up ALL the time she has spent on that listing.. then add up all the advertising she had to pay (some brokers pay some,some require 50/50 .. it all depends)..

Basically.. she probably LOST money !!!! And if she continues to operate that way, then she'll be out of the business fast.. not to mention dead broke!

It's not about doing the "right thing" by the seller.. because if she has done all she said she would do when they signed that listing contract, then she has done all she could do for the seller.. and if the seller got fair market value there is no way she should have cut her commission AT ALL!

And you don't think it's based on how much work we put in.. believe me.. you didn't do anything but put in the offer.. she then worked both sides of the transaction for 1/2 the commission..

Like I said. she'll be finished with the business real soon...

[Austin-Willy]

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

the commission agreement is done ahead of time between her and the seller.. THe seller ALREADY agreed that they would pay whatever pre-agreed upon percent of a price to the agent.

If an agent is interested in getting referrals, not to mention repeat business, they will not use this argument. I would fire you on the spot.

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

BUT.. i will tell you this.. THat agent is NOT a strong agent, for one.

Unfounded speculation, and another scare tactic.

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Number 2, if she continues to cut her commission like that she'll be out of the business fast because she will not make any money . See.. she'll be getting about 1.5% of that 3%.. so lets say blah blah blah...

Basically.. she probably LOST money !!!! And if she continues to operate that way, then she'll be out of the business fast.. not to mention dead broke!

The listing agent will make the same amount that she would have made if the buyer came in represented by an agent. Your argument makes no sense.

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

And you don't think it's based on how much work we put in.. believe me.. you didn't do anything but put in the offer.. she then worked both sides of the transaction for 1/2 the commission..

You have no idea about my transaction. The seller's agent didn't do a single thing to help me other than fax my offer to her client and turn a key and let me in the house. I did the contract (and amendments). I coordinated with the title company. I coordinated all the inspections. I secured financing. I handled my side of the closing. She should have paid me.

Originally Posted by TristansMommy

Like I said. she'll be finished with the business real soon...

This is the type of snarky attitude that gives your profession a bad name.

[Sergio M]

Then I simply told the seller that { quote } Austin-Willy

You had no right speaking to the seller, and the seller had no right speaking to you. The broker has a contract with the seller to negotiate on their behalf for set upon rate.