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Old 10-28-2009, 09:20 PM
 
Location: Central FL
1,382 posts, read 2,030,416 times
Reputation: 1152

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpicard View Post
When the economy collapses and there are no jobs there will be no income to pay whatever hyper inflated property taxes thus you risk losing your home. In an area without property taxes you can live off the land without risk of home loss in a downturn.

I have it laugh when I hear politicians or people claim we are a free country when in reality it is not since there is no such thing as real property ownership. If we had real property ownership we would not be renting the property from the government through property taxes.
I thought of that also. However, if it gets to the point where very few of us are paying our taxes, do you think the local gov't will be able to seize all of our homes and get some value out of all of them? In such a worst case scenerio, I would think the local gov't would not have the resources to process that many seizures. Also, there wouldn't be much value (if any) in your average home in such a mad max scenerio. Finally, what would be the benefit to local gov't to own a bunch of houses in an empty town? (and still have bond payments to make) I guess an "investor" could come in and buy some of the homes for tax certs, and try to rent them, but who's going to rent in a town with no jobs and no schools operating? (because taxes are unpaid)?

The future is so messed up, I guess anything is possible!
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:35 PM
 
Location: Barrington
20,050 posts, read 14,411,868 times
Reputation: 6211
Property taxes are associated with the ole quality of life thing. Property taxes fund:

Schools
Parks
Libraries
Hospitals
Police
Fire fighters
Emergency Responders
Water
Sewer
Garbage Disposal
Road and street maintenance
Municipal infrastructure
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Old 10-28-2009, 10:50 PM
 
Location: DFW - Coppell / Las Colinas
18,721 posts, read 17,480,457 times
Reputation: 17866
I always chuckle when a buyer client says " I want an exemplary rated school district with cheap property taxes"

If you want a piece of land with no taxes do like the rest of us rednecks do. My family has 200 acres of great cattle / farm land with plenty of water. I have stocked up on guns & ammo.

That's as close to tax free as you will get when the SHTF.
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:06 AM
 
151 posts, read 456,000 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by middle-aged mom View Post
Property taxes are associated with the ole quality of life thing. Property taxes fund:

Schools
Parks
Libraries
Hospitals
Police
Fire fighters
Emergency Responders
Water
Sewer
Garbage Disposal
Road and street maintenance
Municipal infrastructure
It is unnecessary to levy property taxes for those things since they can be and in some cases there already are private solutions. Those that believe in forcing individuals to pay property taxes are forcing their will and beliefs on others. That is not freedom. There is no reason that any one of those listed cannot be privatized. Some already are and do not make much sense why you listed them.

Schools - I can pay for private school or home school. My kids are grown and thus no reason I should have to pay my entire life time for your kids.

Parks - They can be privatized and stay open by charging a fee for usage.

Libraries - can be privated and since we have the internet and are basically obsolete anyway. Can also be funded through contributions and fees.

Hospitals - I already pay for this through insurance and fees

Police - can be privatized and already generates revenue from fines-crime.

Fire fighters - volunteer already in my community.

Emergency Responders - volunteer already in my community and users are already charged a fee upon usage.

Water - I can drill a well however already pay a private company for water.

Sewer - I can install a a septic or should be able to pay a private company for sewer.

Garbage Disposal - already private where I live and fees paid.

Roads - have you ever heard of private roads? The state already collects sales taxes and business taxes. We also have the government collecting income tax.
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:43 AM
 
151 posts, read 456,000 times
Reputation: 112
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakin View Post
I always chuckle when a buyer client says " I want an exemplary rated school district with cheap property taxes"

If you want a piece of land with no taxes do like the rest of us rednecks do. My family has 200 acres of great cattle / farm land with plenty of water. I have stocked up on guns & ammo.

That's as close to tax free as you will get when the SHTF.
That is my intention except I do not want to pay crazy property taxes on remote acreage. My search is for cheap land with little to no property taxes. Thus I do not need any services that require me to pay property taxes.
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Old 10-29-2009, 09:51 AM
 
9,807 posts, read 6,456,758 times
Reputation: 8127
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpicard View Post
It is unnecessary to levy property taxes for those things since they can be and in some cases there already are private solutions. Those that believe in forcing individuals to pay property taxes are forcing their will and beliefs on others. That is not freedom. There is no reason that any one of those listed cannot be privatized. Some already are and do not make much sense why you listed them.

Schools - I can pay for private school or home school. My kids are grown and thus no reason I should have to pay my entire life time for your kids.

Parks - They can be privatized and stay open by charging a fee for usage.

Libraries - can be privated and since we have the internet and are basically obsolete anyway. Can also be funded through contributions and fees.

Hospitals - I already pay for this through insurance and fees

Police - can be privatized and already generates revenue from fines-crime.

Fire fighters - volunteer already in my community.

Emergency Responders - volunteer already in my community and users are already charged a fee upon usage.

Water - I can drill a well however already pay a private company for water.

Sewer - I can install a a septic or should be able to pay a private company for sewer.

Garbage Disposal - already private where I live and fees paid.

Roads - have you ever heard of private roads? The state already collects sales taxes and business taxes. We also have the government collecting income tax.

--"Fire fighters--volunteer already in my community"-

In my rural area also.

However, when they are called they don't all come running with 5 gallon pails to put the fire out.

Our township (rural residents) pays a fee via property taxes so they can purchase and upkep a fire truck and equipment.

Better protection than a bunch of guys with just 5 gallon pails fighting a fire
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:07 AM
 
Location: Barrington
20,050 posts, read 14,411,868 times
Reputation: 6211
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpicard View Post
It is unnecessary to levy property taxes for those things since they can be and in some cases there already are private solutions. Those that believe in forcing individuals to pay property taxes are forcing their will and beliefs on others. That is not freedom. There is no reason that any one of those listed cannot be privatized. Some already are and do not make much sense why you listed them.

Schools - I can pay for private school or home school. My kids are grown and thus no reason I should have to pay my entire life time for your kids.
Most children attend public schools.

Parks - They can be privatized and stay open by charging a fee for usage.
I see. Parks and recreation facilities are for the wealthy.

Libraries - can be privated and since we have the internet and are basically obsolete anyway. Can also be funded through contributions and fees.
I see. Library resources can be limited to those who can afford to pay.

Hospitals - I already pay for this through insurance and fees
Hardly.

Police - can be privatized and already generates revenue from fines-crime.
I see. Only those who can afford protection will receive protection.

Fire fighters - volunteer already in my community.
Not true in most areas. I guess if someone cannot afford to pay, their place or business can burn.

Emergency Responders - volunteer already in my community and users are already charged a fee upon usage.
Not true in most areas.

Water - I can drill a well however already pay a private company for water. Not true in metropolitan areas, so I guess the majority are out of luck, eh.

Sewer - I can install a a septic or able to pay a private company for sewer. Not true in metropolitan areas so I guess the majority are out of luck and can toss raw sewerage out their window.

Garbage Disposal - already private where I live and fees paid.
Not true in metropolitan areas so I guess those wo cannot or willnot pay can just toss their garbage out their windows.

Roads - have you ever heard of private roads? The state already collects sales taxes and business taxes. We also have the government collecting income tax.
Not true in metropolitan areas. Maybe tolls can be assessed to those who need to walk or drive each street. And when it snows, byoshovel/salt.


Most people in the U.S. live in or near large metropolitan areas and the source of their income and thus, the lifestyle you propose is not practical.

Property tax, in some form or another is as old as civilization.Good ole Abe Lincoln was a property tax attorney are sued

Property taxes, in some form or another, have been around since the begining of civilization. Oliver Wendell Holmes said “Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society.”

Sounds like it's all about you and not the greater good.
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Old 10-29-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Barrington
20,050 posts, read 14,411,868 times
Reputation: 6211
Time mag recently ran another story about Detroit......how it is that the Police force had been reduced by 25% because tax revenues were not adequate to sustain what they had. The article went on about one of the few remaining " middle class" neighborhoods that has hired out "property protection" to a private security company. As for the rest....oh well.

I am aware that this occurs in other middle class pockets in otherwise blighted areas. I can thik of a handful in Queens, NY.

The Police on lay -off become just another group of unemployed, who need some form of state /federal assistance and/or chairity.
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:05 PM
 
151 posts, read 456,000 times
Reputation: 112
You have a right to form organizations or communities that provide such services. You would however deny me that right to live freely by levying taxes via force and coercive means in an act of aggression which is fundamentally oppressive. In a voluntary free society there would be no property taxes. Private property ownership is one of the most important aspects of a free society. We do not have real property ownership if I am renting from the government through property taxes thus you do not believe in a free voluntary society.

Since the point of my post was about finding property and land in the country where there are no public services and I can roll my own or buy privately I will respond to your services list accordingly.

Quote:
jpicard: Schools - I can pay for private school or home school. My kids are grown and thus no reason I should have to pay my entire life time for your kids.
middle-aged-mom: Most children attend public schools.
Just because "most children" attend public schools does not mean I should be denied the ability to
home school or send my child to a private school. In a free society I should have the right to do so rather than be forced to pay for something I do not use.

Quote:
Parks - They can be privatized and stay open by charging a fee for usage.
I see. Parks and recreation facilities are for the wealthy.
You can also not charge. Through advertising sponsorship or volunteerism the parks could be maintained. We do this already in many areas such as the "adopt a highway" programs.

Quote:
Libraries - can be privated and since we have the internet and are basically obsolete anyway. Can also be funded through contributions and fees.
I see. Library resources can be limited to those who can afford to pay.
If you are concerned a segment of the population cannot afford to go to the Library than you can donate directly or form an organization that raises funds for the under privileged use of Libraries. Forcing under privileged home owners to go without heat and food to pay their property tax bill since you want to have a beautiful library is down right evil.

Quote:
Hospitals - I already pay for this through insurance and fees
Hardly.
I already pay for health insurance and when I go to the hospital for an overnight I still pay several thousand out of pocket. In your world in addition to this you think property taxes should also be used to support the hospitals. Wow.

Quote:
Police - can be privatized and already generates revenue from fines-crime.
I see. Only those who can afford protection will receive protection.
You can say the same about those that cannot afford property taxes. Since I am living in the country I can defend myself and form a volunteer group within my community.

Quote:
Fire fighters - volunteer already in my community.
Not true in most areas. I guess if someone cannot afford to pay, their place or business can burn.
This goes back the same as the school response. Just because "most areas" do not do so does not mean I should be denied and have your beliefs forced upon my community. I live in a major suburb of NYC where all our fire departments in the county are volunteer. Big business has been instrumental in paying for fire equipment and trucks.

Quote:
Emergency Responders - volunteer already in my community and users are already charged a fee upon usage.
Not true in most areas.
Again, just because some areas are not volunteer does not mean my community should be denied that privatized option.

Quote:
Water - I can drill a well however already pay a private company for water. Not true in metropolitan areas, so I guess the majority are out of luck, eh.
Most areas you already pay a private company for water and this service is not paid with property taxes.

Quote:
Sewer - I can install a a septic or able to pay a private company for sewer. Not true in metropolitan areas so I guess the majority are out of luck and can toss raw sewerage out their window.

Most people in the U.S. live in or near large metropolitan areas and the source of their income and thus, the lifestyle you propose is not practical.
Like I said this is already being done in some metropolitian areas. The purpose of my post was rural areas so this comment is irrelevant to the discussion anyway.

Quote:
Property tax, in some form or another is as old as civilization.Good ole Abe Lincoln was a property tax attorney are sued . Property taxes, in some form or another, have been around since the begining of civilization. Oliver Wendell Holmes said “Taxes are what we pay for a civilized society.”
Acts of aggression are as old as civilization which does not make it right. Since I grew out of my public school indoctrination I was able to see Abe Lincoln for what he was. Lincoln was a tyrant who launched an unjust war that resulted in the deaths of 620,000 people, he suspended haebus corpus and nearly bankrupted the country. He did more than any other President to increase the size of government and destroy the Constitution. 620,000 people dead when he could have simply done what other civilized countries had done at the time and paid off the slave owners without firing a single shot.

If Hitler was a victor I am sure you would be singing his praises to today. Just like the Chairman Mao who killed far more than Hitler and the Chinese still sing his praises.

Quote:
Sounds like it's all about you and not the greater good.
In a free society I have a right to contribute or not contribute to the greater good how I see fit without being forced to do so through acts of aggression.

Last edited by jpicard; 10-29-2009 at 12:13 PM..
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Old 10-29-2009, 12:09 PM
 
Location: Barrington
20,050 posts, read 14,411,868 times
Reputation: 6211
Alrighty then.....
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